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Something About Politics That I Have Never Understood

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Hostile, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    Why do people need their political parties to tell them what their morals and beliefs are? I don't get that.

    For example, the new issue. Global warming. I find it hard to believe that every Democrat believes it is man made and every Republican doesn't. Yet the two parties will fight over it as if they have held that belief all their lives and it's ingrained in the very fiber of their being. It's really rare to find someone from either party who believes opposite of what their party believes.

    I can't for the life of me understand why anyone needs a political party to tell them how to think.

    Take my Uncle for example. He's a Viet Nam veteran and a very staunch Democrat. Good man who you can depend on when the chips are down. After 9/11 he wanted to re-join the military and go fight. He was telling me how we should get Hussein, Qadafy, and Arafat, along with Bin Laden. Now, because so many Democrats he swears he never wanted anything to do with the war in Iraq.

    Or my friend Jim for another example. He's an extremely staunch Republican. He's so Right Wing he makes Ann Coulter look like a Liberal. Also a good man. In 2000 he couldn't stand Joe Leiberman. Said he was one of the most evil Senators serving the country and how he was appalled that Democrats could ever support a man like that. This morning he told me that he was shocked that Democrats cannot see for themselves what one of the best men in their party sees between Obama and McCain.

    It's no wonder there's political gridlock. The two parties are telling people how to think, and the people are obliging them.

    It's amazing and I see it every day. Why would you let someone else control your thoughts? I can't see the attraction of it. In fact it sort of appals me.
  2. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    Agreed, Hos. I attribute this behavior to the fan's mentality. The Reps/Dems are my team, and I'll support them no matter what.

    Personally, I vote for the candidate who most closely aligns with my values; however, I do not defend any one candidate or party at all costs.
  3. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Its easy and efficient. Rather than deciding for oneself, taking someone else's stance gives you pre-packaged materials to back up your "new" beliefs.

    People don't have any interest in gathering facts and coming to a rational decision based on what they truly believe. Its too difficult. Takes too much time in a busy world.

    Meanwhile, the politicians from both sides continue to spoon feed them their beliefs and then thrust a little bit harder and deeper, smiling all the way.

    That's one of the issues I take with politics. People don't decide for themselves. Instead, people vote based on party lines and loyalties. Their minds and votes are determined before the candidates are.

    Its just sucks to see a good system get abused and misused for the benefit of a few.
  4. adamc91115

    adamc91115 New Member

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    Personally, my stand on issues just happen to align with the Republicans.

    I knew my beliefs before I knew anything about Republican/Democrat Conservative/Liberal.

    Abortion, taxes, gun control...

    As far as global warming, something I disagree with McCain about, I have always believed that its NOT man-made. I believe its correlated with natural cycles of the Earth and also related to the Sun. I won't go further into it because this thread isn't specifically about global warming.
  5. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    honestly, to this day, while I know the general gist of both the democrat/rep platform, I don't know what it is their reasons for their platform, or the full extent of it.

    I come to my beliefs based on empirical research and deductive reasoning, and if something doesn't work or stops working, fine, I'll modify my views/belief.
  6. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    My question is, whatever happened to the "question everything" mentality?

    No one questions their party or their party's leaders any more.

    Let me give one more example. Here in Arizona there is an Amendment on the books called Prop 102. It is the "same sex marriage" amendment. A vote yes keeps the language as one man, one woman. A vote no allows for same sex marriages to be performed in AZ.

    Let's be blunt, Conservatives are not in favor of same sex marriages. If you listened closely to this topic in the Vice Presidential debate, neither of the Presidential candidates nor their running mates are in favor of re-defining marriage.

    Yesterday I was talking to a guy who has an "Obama 08" bumper sticker and a "No on 102" bumper sticker on his car. I asked him what he thought about Obama and Biden not being in favor of a re-definition of marriage. He
    told me I didn't know what I was talking about. So I brought up the VP debates and Biden and Palin agreeing on that point and saying their running mates agreed. He did not remember that, and said he would have to call the local Dem HQ to ask what Obama and Biden's stance on 102 was. I said, "would it change your vote on 102?" Shockingly he said, "it might."
  7. bbgun

    bbgun Benched

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    You could easily anologize it to rooting for a team, like the Cowboys. But how do we get Jerry to agree to term limits??
  8. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I have no idea what you just said there, but I like the way you said it. :D

    "Conservative" and "Conservation" come from the same Latin root word, conservare. So why are Conservatives against measures of conservation supported by the Liberal Interest Groups?

    I confess, that doesn't make any sense to me even though I know Conservatism really isn't a Political position. It is more a desire for stability. So a Conservative in Mexico would be much different from a Conservative here because of the vastly divergent cultural and political mores of the two countries.

    I don't understand the "consider the source" mentality. If you are Liberal and dismiss everything reported by Fox News (or Conservative and dismiss everything reported by CNN) that is critical of someone in your party then you are a sheep to your party shepherds. It is really just that simple.

    I use Fox and CNN only because people here mention them all the time. I like both just fine and don't pay enough attention to know their leanings.

    I don't care enough to care. I just find it convenient that people choose not to think for themselves.
  9. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I am joking with you a little bit in this.

    In this forum you are decidedly Conservative and anti-Liberal. In discussing the Cowboys you are the exact opposite.

    Anti-American commentary is not tolerated by you, but anti-Cowboys commentary draws applause as truthful.

    :wink2:
  10. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    Let's be even further in our effort be blunt: we're jaded.
    I firmly believe, that regardless of whatever advancements science, technology, standard of living are made, generations become morally worse.

    Government has for too many in effect become this giant omniscient entity that is supposed to basically assure you everything, while you toil daily for whatever individual comforts you wish to pursue.

    The question everything mentality has been thoroughly conditioned out of our generation, through years of commercial assurances that personal luxury, in the form of necessities, not really necessary to sustain organic life, are completely necessary to ensure happiness.
  11. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    The "question everything" mindset is something that has become a victim of popular culture. Kids and teenagers grow up being told what they should like, how they should act if the want to be cool and what they should want to do with their life. When they grow up the same effect occurs in politics. It's sad. The thing that needs the most change in our country isn't our government or our policies, it's our culture.
  12. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    I'm glad that's your opinion, because it certainly is not mine.
  13. bbgun

    bbgun Benched

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    Not sure one has anything to do with the other. The Cowboys are a company, not a country or political party. Bad decisions by Jerry or a loss on Sunday can affect my mood, but pols can affect my life, and not necessarily for the better. Big difference. And some "anti-Cowboys commentary" is spot on, especially this week.
  14. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    Ok...
  15. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    Great post. Hit everything I am talking about very succinctly.
  16. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I think you are exactly right on the victim of popular culture thing.

    The question is why has it changed so drastically?
  17. Maikeru-sama

    Maikeru-sama Mick Green 58

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    Yeah, I always get a kick out of people who say that the new generations are morally worse than the ones before it.

    When exactly were the good old days?
  18. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    it is human nature to conform. Studies done in the 60s and 70s (remember Milgram and Zimbardi, although I have my issues with methodology) and writings about the Hitler era, and way earlier have shown it really is human nature to conform, sometimes even against our own inclination and beliefs. Those who question things, particularly the status quo, were not generally looked upon favorably.
  19. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I disagree with you both. I think there are things that are done today that would never happen in years past. Some of the changes are good, but some of them are not. I see different moral values in my kid's friends that my friends never would have had.
  20. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    I agree that not everything that's changed is for the good, but I don't believe society as a whole is morally worse, just different. In Japan, married men and women have extramarital relations and it is socially and morally okay as long as it is for money, not love. I don't think going outside the marriage is something I would engage in and expect a monogamous relationship. For me, the japanese aren't morally worse than me because they don't believe that.

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