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Stephon Gilmore (South Carolina) VS Dre Kirkpatrick (Alabama)

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by 28 Joker, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    The argument about lack of fast twitch ability doesn't stand to reason - look at his explosion measurables - very, very good.

    The argument about tight hips also doesn't make sense when you look at his agility numbers - extremely good.

    I also don't buy the argument about lack of production. You don't measure by CBs by lack of production. You measure them by their ability to cover which is a game tape assessment, not a statistical assessment.

    The biggest negative he mentioned was poor hands - I can live with that in a press CB so long as he'll knock the ball down. It's probably a bigger deal for a zone CB.
  2. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    Maybe find a pass rusher in FA to help out Ware?
  3. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    I think if Gilmore is the pick then a trade down to 20 makes sense as I don't see many drafts projecting him this high.

    I actually really don't mind even going after the 2nd and 3rd round CBs in this draft, though. There is a lot of depth at this position.
  4. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Free agency should have some nutty prices next summer, but with dead money coming off and if we let some FAs like Jenkins and Spencer walk, we could make a pretty huge splash if we need it.

    Would be great to find that pass rusher, if available and not already drafted by the team (although you can never have too many). What I do want is that space there so if one is available, we can jump on him and pay what needs to be paid to get him.

    There is alot riding on this draft cause of past failures. We probably need 4 guys who can play, and start between now and 2013 from this draft.
  5. Yuma Cactus

    Yuma Cactus Active Member

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    This clip didn't show him cover anybody. He plays CB. Gilmore is better at what a CB is paid to do.
  6. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the clock is ticking.

    We lucked out into a franchise type QB as a UDFA and we got the best defensive player in the NFL over the past 7 years on our roster and we still can't win games consistently.

    I hope Jerry did some deep soul searching when his team got off to that 1-7 start in 2010 when he was hoping for a SB berth with the game in Dallas that year. I really hope he finally understood the way he was putting together the team was backwards and had to be corrected. The last draft in 2011 suggests the lessons have sunk in - no major projects were selected, all the guys brought in were football players not athletes looking for a position. We actually drafted an OL in the first and a LB in the second before taking a skill position player. Heck, we didn't draft a kicker at all and still wound up with a great one as a UDFA.

    But yes the window is closing on Ware and who knows how long before Romo is put out of commission behind the OLs we have built in front of him. I really do hope for another premium pick at the OL in the second. This is a draft of depth and one where quantity probably matters more than quality due to the lack of high ceiling talent in the upper part of the first round. We need to bolt down if an offer comes. I wouldn't even mind trading out of the first and then using the accumulated picks on 1 OG, 1-2 CBs, 1 DE, and 1 OLB in the first four founds. The reason I don't want to invest more in OL is I am confident in Killa, we have the two FAs and add in one good OG (maybe Kevin Zeitler or Amini Silatolu or Brandon Brooks) and we are good to go without any need to hope that Costa and Nagy are better or Arkin is ready to play.

    We need to shore up all those huge spots of weakness where other teams continuously gashed us over the years. Our top end talent is as good as anyone. It has been the scrub starters that have killed us over the last 5 years.
  7. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that is why I mentioned we need those 4 guys out this draft, and I don't really care what order they are taken in, I just know its harder to get that DE and especially OLB later in this particular draft.

    An interior OL, DE, OLB, and CB are just needed out of this draft. Then of course you have safety, WR, TE, ILB, and such but their level of importance are less, except for safety cause he could be a starter from day one.

    This really needs to be another really solid draft, cause we can't afford as many misses anymore. And I do hope for help so that we aren't dependent on Jenkins or especially Spencer in 2013.
  8. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    I have long argued that Spencer should have not been franchised so that we have that cap space to use in the future. I really don't see us contending for the SB this year so I don't mind the growing pains of inserting Albright/Butler in there. I know that we are going to draft an OLB in the first 3 rounds anyway. To me we are just throwing our cap dollars out the window. It hurts doubly since it would be one way of getting back the cap space the league took away (hopefully only temporarily with the arbitrator to rule on the case yet).

    I like Jenkins as a player and wouldn't mind re-signing him but you can't tie up that much money at CB unless you are going to press all-day and skimp elsewhere on the D and I really don't think that is a great strategy and may not be so replicable without a Revis on the roster.
  9. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Spencer is probably the scariest person on the D, cause if we pay him we don't know what we will get, and this is the reason why he has the tag right now.

    I would love for us to be in a long term position to replace Spencer, and Jenkins for that matter, although I don't have as much of a problem with resigning Jenkins, its just the total money at the CB position.

    The FO is thinking about this stuff right now, and they know more than us about it as far as the total situation. I do think we can contend, but really, we can't make any mistakes this offseason. Sounds stupid I guess, but this offseason is probably one of the most important of both Ware and Romo's careers.

    We need to get them both help, right now.
  10. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    I think Melvin Ingram is your guy to help Ware, but I don't know if he will fall past the Chiefs or Cardinals. Maybe, the Cardinals would prefer Upshaw, because he is a Steelers type player. Ingram would be a headache to game-plan, because he could be used all over the place and could bring heat from multiple places in the defense. I think he could cover and blitz as an inside linebacker, too. Ingram can be used as a Joker. I wonder if it's possible for Ingram to fall to 14, because I think he's built for the 34.

    I hope the Cowboys secretly like Ingram, because I keep giving him to Kansas City and Arizona in my mocks. What if they pass for other players or for some other reason?
  11. Shinywalrus

    Shinywalrus Active Member

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    Assuming that Jerry wasn't smoke-screening on DeCastro...

    If one of Ingram, Gilmore or Kirkpatrick is available, we probably jump on them. If 2 or 3 are available when we pick, it's not inconceivable that we would drop back a few.

    Unless we've fallen in love with one of these guys, I guess.
  12. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    That pretty much sums things up, overall, and you and Eskimo brought out some great discussion. The Cowboys have so many issues that it really isn't even funny. If Mike Jenkins just averages his 2009 and 2011 seasons (and is healthy), he is probably going to get big time money on the open market. You do have to plan for that type of stuff. Just look at the Spencer situation now as you guys have pointed out.
  13. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    I like Ingram too and I wouldn't mind picking him at 14 if he were available. Hopefully that would mean that Spencer's tag is lifted so we can free up some cap.

    I love Ingram as a player. So many focus on lack of length but the kid can play the game. He has a nose for the ball and moves around like a RB - very agile and slippery. He can play OLB, ILB, DE and DT. He can come at you so many ways and is a perfect fit for a dynamic defense with lots of moving parts.

    Whitney may ultimately be a better pure pass rusher with his length and power. I'm not convinced he will be a better overall player than Ingram and Ingram will be a satisfactory pass rusher and a big upgrade from Spencer who has no imagination, burst or agility as a pass rusher.

    The only down part of taking Ingram is we don't get the extra picks but the plus part is that we strengthen the weakest part of the defense and save cap money by releasing Spencer.

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