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News: Sturm: Cowboys snag Claiborne, but at what cost?

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by WoodysGirl, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. WoodysGirl

    WoodysGirl Shut up and play! Staff Member

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    April 27, 2012

    It surely is never dull around here. It happens nearly every spring. The Dallas Cowboys targeted and acquired the apple of their eye with a move located somewhere between courageous and reckless when they grabbed the best defensive player in the draft. In a trade that cost them picks No. 14 and No. 45 in order to ascend to No. 6, they picked LSU corner Morris Claiborne.

    Claiborne is an exceptional talent; a dazzling combination of tools and big play performances that had every team in the NFL placing him high on their respective boards. He has the upside that projects to a true No. 1 cornerback who can lock down his man and a large part of his side of the field. When he gets the ball in his hands -- which happens pretty often considering he is a defensive player -- he is often on his way to a giant game-changing play that results in points. And it appears the Cowboys were able to get him from St Louis for below market value. The trade up to No. 6 would normally have cost a team at No. 14 their second and fourth rounder as well, but the Rams were motivated sellers who just wanted to get out of that position so they could pick up an additional Top 50 pick.

    And why would that be? Because the Rams realized they had more holes than they could plug with Claiborne and the rest of their haul. They knew they were not just one player away.

    Kind of makes you wonder why the franchise on the other end of the phone didn't feel the same way about their situation.

    Read more: http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/0...ding_cowboys.html?blockID=718236&feedID=10194
  2. dwmyers

    dwmyers Well-Known Member

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    I beg to differ with this. You can know the value of the trade. PFR's average AV per draft pick gives you a way to enumerate the cost..

    I have at least two posts now on break even dynamics in NFL drafts.

    http://codeandfootball.wordpress.com/2012/04/29/assessing-the-break-even-point-of-nfl-draft-trades/

    http://codeandfootball.wordpress.co...he-eli-manning-and-robert-griffin-iii-trades/

    In short, if Claiborne has a Terence Newman like career with the Boys, he's break even. Any better, it's a win for the Boys.
  3. The30YardSlant

    The30YardSlant Benched

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    I don't have a problem with trading up to get him. Claiborne is one of the top 5 CB prospects to come out in the least decade, and if he lives up to that billing than he is more than worth it. Elite corners are rare in the modern NFL, much rarer even than elite QBs.
  4. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

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    Well if we believe what we have been told who they would have taken if they kept the first and second round pick we can later decide if it was worth the trade or not.

    Brockers and Wagner vs Claiborne.

    This was not a situation where they were going to be taking an offensive lineman or safety in the first and second.

    Now I guess if you wanted to argue about it you could say...Well they take a DE and ILB with the first picks which means they would not take Crawford in the third and Caleb in the 7th (although we hear Caleb might be a FB).

    So I am not sure if instead we would have taken a Oline in the third/seventh or since you did not address a CB you wind up taking a CB they liked in the third/seventh.

    The only thing we know right now is that, again if we believe what we were told, they would have taken Brockers and Wagner but instead took Claiborne. So until we see how those moves turn out we really don't know which was the right move in the long run.
  5. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    I think the better way to evaluate a decision is to do so based solely on the information that was available to the decision maker at the time the decision was made. How these picks wind up should not have any bearing on whether or not it was a good decision to make the trade when it happened.
  6. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    Sturm's argument kinda slips for me. Unless you are 'just two players away', the trade up for a blue chip guy seems the better deal. Cowboys essential traded away a chance to pick one guy, albeit at a slot that can yield good players, for the consensus best defensive player at an important position, a position of need for the Cowboys.

    The argument he uses, can also be used against his stance, imo.
  7. interestedobserver

    interestedobserver New Member

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    That may be true, but a QB has far more impact on a game.
  8. Dough Boy

    Dough Boy Seldom Seen

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    Lets say we agree with Strum. The Cowboys are not one player away. By that logic, we only gave up one draft pick. We flipped 1st round picks and gave away a 2nd round pick. We moved up from 14 to 6, were the hit ratio is much higher for a player.

    Additionally, we have fewer holes in our roster than the Rams and thus could afford to give up one player for the right to select a player with a much lower 'bust' factor than any player we would have drafted at 14.

    In reading Sturm's article, I would have come to the conclusion that we gave away 'multiple' draft picks, i.e., the Julio Jones trade or the RG3 trade. Dallas gave up one draft pick, not three or four or five. One pick equals one player.

    So the simple question is this, would you give up Marcus Spears to draft Revis? Would you give up Kevin Burnett to draft Joe Haden? Would you give up Martellus Bennet to draft Flowers from KC? If you say yes, then you give up the 2nd round pick to draft the player your scouting department thinks is the comparable CB to Haden, Revis and Flowers. You give up a solid starter. That what you hope your 2nd round picks become, solid starters. If Spencer or Spears were a 2nd round picks, most people would be happy with him. We did not give up a first to get Claiborne, and by Strum's own admission, we gave up less than market to get the best defensive player in the draft.

    In my mind, Strum defeats his own argument with his flawed logic. Based on Strum's logic, Dallas is one more player away after this draft. How ever many players we were away before the draft, we are still one player away because we gave up one draft pick. A team is not built in one draft. They are built in multiple good drafts and free agency.

    What Strum also fails to take into account, there is no guarantee you hit on the 2nd round pick, nor does he take into consideration that we can continue to add to the team via free agency for vets and undrafted free agency. Simple stated, Dallas set itself back one player from building is dream roster. In doing that, they secured the best defensive player in the draft and maybe the best CB in the prior 4 drafts. In my estimation, a very small price to pay.
  9. Sandyf

    Sandyf Member

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    Lets see Bob, you have a chance to draft the best defensive player in your draft at a bargain where there are only 5 blue chip player in a draft and it is a mistake.

    What you didn't address Bob was the fact Dallas blew 5 double digit leads in the 4th quarter last year because of the secondary. Sure the pass rush should have been better but if the secondary could cover, the pass rush would have caused problems and Dallas wouldn't have lost those games.

    Just think Bob, if Dallas wins those 5 games, the Giants never make the playoffs and who knows what happens in the playoffs.

    The best moves Dallas made this offseason was signing Carr and moving up to take Claiborne at CB. They got much better in the secondary even at safety with Pool and maybe Johnson. Just think if a QB has to find his second or third or fourth option because of coverage. The pass rush will be perceived as better.

    Now do we have holes, yes we do, ever team does and will but Dallas went from hoping to compete for a division title to being as good as anyone in the conference with one of the best if not the best CB tandem in the league. Will the defense be better this year, significantly! 5 losses to 5 wins makes a team 13-3 not 8-8 again. What would you rather have?
  10. kevinhickey

    kevinhickey Member

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    I just don't get it. We got the best defensive player on almost every teams draft board, for a 2nd rounder. Most draft guru's applaud us for this move. The price may have been higher in terms of losing more selections. Lets not forget, what the league and Goddell did to our team, prior to free agency. We lost our chance to get an OG. I love the direction the team is heading under Garrett.
  11. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    I think this probably makes his point more than disproving it. The fact that if not for Claiborne, those guys would have been the picks says something as well, doesn't it?
  12. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Because the team on the other end of the phone lost out on the NFCE division crown for lack of better play in the secondary?

    So tired of this 'not one player away' talk. Claiborne makes this team better. Better than the players we would have taken in his place. He was a good pick as a result. End of story.
  13. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Sturm once again proves he's the best writer covering the team.
  14. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    We didn't lose our chance at a G due to the cap penalty. That's a cop out. We still managed to waste 50 million on Brandon Carr. So we chose not to get one.

    We could have, and should have, used some of that money on a top G. And a C while we're at it.

    Sturm's absolutely right. We got dominated by the Giants' front seven in those games. The Eagles too. We have no shot until that changes. Carr and Claiborne do nothing to address that.
  15. BigDFan5

    BigDFan5 In Tebow I Trust

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    So you are against Carr and Claiborne? So in your opinion 1-3 cb here should be Jenkins, Scandrick and Ball?
  16. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    It says they were spot on their evaluations.
  17. Enlightened32

    Enlightened32 New Member

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    Hence why you need good corners...
  18. Enlightened32

    Enlightened32 New Member

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    Rome wasnt built in a day. We still have FA part 2 to go. Be patient. Its not like we havent upgraded our Oline at all. Last year we didnt really have an offseason. Give this staff the time it needs to work with these young guys and then we can revisit this after TC.
  19. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    Great article. I don't agree with all the points, but Sturm is his usual insightful self. The part about the treadmill was especially poignant.
  20. preacher238

    preacher238 Member

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    Why am I not surprised you agree with him? If would have posted something contrary to your agenda, he would be pond scum in your eyes.

    Get lost....

    :laugh2:

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