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Sturm: The Morning After: Lions 31, Cowboys 30 (4-4)

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by WoodysGirl, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Yeah, as I said, I totally get playing it that way. That's the way I was actually expecting us to go, and then when I realized he was playing for the fg, I had to pause and do that math in my head to decide if that was smarter than what I would have done, or dumber. But even then, I was distracted by the play clock math and the penalty, so the whole thing was sort of jumbled.

    In retrospect, I understand both approached. I'd even have understood playing for the first down with some conservative passing plays. About the only thing we couldn't afford to do was stop the clock, and we went out and did it. It's just astonishing.
  2. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    it is becasue the HC is not prepared for these situations
  3. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    What do you think he should have done in that situation? Kneel down?
  4. alicetooljam

    alicetooljam Active Member

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    Yes, on 3rd down, without mentioning the mismanaging of the series before as well
  5. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    sad but no sadder than the fact that many continue to defend both of them (and the usual suspects are doing so in this very thread)
    dallasfan4lizife likes this.
  6. Double Trouble

    Double Trouble Well-Known Member

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    40 seconds off the clock and you can legititmately play prevent defense, and unless they complete a hail mary on their 1st play from scrimmage, odds are they won't even get down and get the clock stopped anyway. And if you have that little trust in your D to stop a hail mary from deep in their territory, then just throw it on 3rd down.....

    The offense's primary concern at that time was burning clock, and the FG should be a secondary consideration. Maybe the coaches communicated this to the players, and that's all they can be expected to reasonably do.

    Regardless, Garrett is responsible. So is the front office. Ultimately, it goes back to those responsible for putting the failure out on the field to begin with. You can't segregate blame onto the players and not the coaches and front office. The coach and GM have to be held accountable when the team they built doesn't work. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in Dallas.
    khiladi and Staubacher like this.
  7. Staubacher

    Staubacher Well-Known Member

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    I was expecting run up the middle, basically a dive. It takes a few more seconds off the clock than a kneel down. I was shocked by the bounce outside and feared a fumble, run out of bounds or penalty. We weren't gonna get the first needing 13 yards so you kill clock the easiest way and play to leave the Lions only 20 seconds or so. There were two timeouts on the previous plays where was the HC gathering everyone and telling them exactly what NOT to do? Garrett always disappears on the sideline in these situations
    khiladi and tecolote like this.
  8. Doomsay

    Doomsay Well-Known Member

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    A good coaching staff gets the message to the team that they can't afford a penalty within the 5 minute mark. Romo's earphone should have been ringing with that message - yards aren't important, time and ball protection are, period. Either kneel or run it straight ahead on a simple count. Basic situational awareness that you communicate to the players on the field. They had the benefit of two timeouts to reinforce that message, it would appear that they did not.
    khiladi likes this.
  9. Staubacher

    Staubacher Well-Known Member

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    Garrett is like Dennis Hopper in Hoosiers coaching that one game for Hackman. Freezes up at the end while the team is looking to him for what to do.
  10. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    The thing is, our defense really was that porous. We'd very likely have been bitten, either route. They wouldn't need a Hail Mary. Just the same success with the same plays they eventually called would have been sufficient.

    But we agree that the team was responsible for what ended up being an unacceptable loss.
  11. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    That makes sense. I can see that, too. I agree that I was concerned to see Tanner bounce it out so close to the sideline again, and relieved when he turned it back upfield. And then happy with the gain. And then befuddled when I saw the flag come out.
  12. garrett316

    garrett316 5 against 1 Zone Supporter

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    If I'm remembering yesterday's sequence correctly, the Lions ran 3 plays in 33 seconds to get in fg range (they werent playing for the fg obviously), but I thnk they got the ball at 1:06 and after the long pass between Scandrick and Hamilton they were at :33 left. so the kneel down and punt on our next to last possession probably leads to a worst case scenario of overtime that we likely lose anyway. Hindsight is 20/20, yesterday was a total failure from the coaches to the players imo.

    I understand Idgit's scenario and Garrett's ultimate decision even though I disagree with it. We clearly are in a trail position on the sideline though. These end game situations very rarely work out for us, and that's an indictment of the front office, coaches, and players. I was not pleased with the way we managed the end of the ballgame, but ultimately when you force 4 turnovers, you should have more than a 6 point lead. No matter how good an offense you are facing an 80 yard drive in :50 to win the game is unacceptable. 623 yards allowed is a disgrace and we just came off a game of allowing 51 three sundays ago. And there is no way in hell you take a penalty to stop the clock when you are trying to end the game. Total organizational failure and they happen way, way too often.
    Staubacher and Idgit like this.
  13. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    visionary, you really need to do something more constructive with your pent-up passive aggressive animosity. I'm perfectly content with your dislike for me, but you shouldn't let stalking me obliquely get in the way of an otherwise civil and interesting discussion. We're all here to discuss the Cowboys, at the end of the day.
  14. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I agree with this all, actually. And I'm still confused as to why these breakdowns happen. Ultimately, it's on the head coach, because that 'comes with the dinner' as he likes to say. But it's incredibly demoralizing and frustrating.
  15. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    i am confused, did i respond to your post?

    and i think i have been civil in all of my posts anyway
  16. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Ok. Cool.
  17. Zimmy Lives

    Zimmy Lives Well-Known Member

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    I blame the vets on this team that are in positions of leadership. In the huddle, they should coach up the younger guys to play their positions, trust their reads, and, most importantly, avoid penalties in key situations.
    mrmojo likes this.
  18. garrett316

    garrett316 5 against 1 Zone Supporter

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    One other thing that concerns me even more was Garrett's body language after the penalty on Tyron Smith. Now, its hard to try and interpret what he was saying after the penalty was called and Schwartz decined it, but JG seemed to be trying to get the attention of the officials and asking why the clock was stopped. The fact that he didnt know that the clock is stopped on a penalty is a grave concern. You cant teach the players correctly and emphasize that a penalty as an absolute no-no there if you are unsure of the rules yourself. Like I said, this was my interpreation and perhaps JG was getting clarification on something else but he looked like he was wondering why the clock stopped.
  19. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how anyone can debate this strategy. You run it three straight times and take it down to 30 seconds or so. Then you make a decision to punt or try the FG. Either strategy is workable and could lead to success but it's all contingent on there being only 30 seconds on the clock. Unfortunately, the holding call was an absolute killer and another dagger to the heart of a team that finds innovative ways to lose games. For that I totally blame the HC because it's happened far too often on his watch to just call it a coincidence. This team has no identity.....absolutely none. The offense has no game flow, no kill shot; just a QB trying to be conservative and not lose a game which can work if you have a solid D but will not work when your D is breaking every record for futility known to mankind. It's really too bad because I think JG has some pieces to be more than .500 but just doesn't know how to put it all together........
    khiladi likes this.
  20. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Sturm is always above the fray. Plenty of good points there.

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