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Super Bowl Teams & The NFL Quarterback Fallacy

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by MissouriCowboy, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Is this supposed to be a new concept?

    That an incredibly strong team overall can win in spite of subpar or worse QB play? And for the record, the 49ers and Ravens have been getting solid QB play so I'm not sure there's any point to be made.

    I thought Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson established this years ago.

    I love how Kaepernick being the backup to start the season is being tossed around like there's some significant to it. The guy is clearly better than the starter was, it's not like Kaep is going back to the bench. He's their QB into the future.
  2. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Active Member

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    Yep, and why did he make that mistake? Had no running game to pound the ball down the field. And the defense knew it. So all they had to do was tee off on Romo. Romo knowing if he doenst make the play on his own, they lose. So he is pressing. Rusher comes nearly unblocked straight up the middle in Romo's face as he throws the pass off his back foot for the pick.

    And I like how you said Harris put us in position. LOL Romo threw two clutch passes. One on the TD and the other on the 2 point converstion.

    And after the pick, the defense holds to a FG and hatcher jumps off sides thus giving Romo no other shot. needless to say, Romo should never have thrown that pick.

    If Romo has a nice clean pocket, or has the ability to hand the ball off for 6 yards, that pick probably never happens. Just sayin.
  3. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Active Member

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    Thats the whole point. That the big reason they have solid QB play is because they time to throw, run games, good defenses ect...ect...
  4. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Active Member

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    This argument is real simple actually. Brady, Brees, Eli, Manning, Rogers are all at home right now. And two of those didnt even make the playoffs. So if its all about QB play, then why are the starting QB's in the superbowl Joe Flacco and a 2nd year running QB in Kapernaek that has only played like 9 games in his NFL career?

    Its REAL simple. This is a team game and its NOT all about the QB. And why did Flacco make the SB finally after 8 years? Because his defense finally shut
    down Brady in the big game. 13 points. LOL

    It doesnt get any more clear than that. Game over!!!
  5. Wahoo Cowboy

    Wahoo Cowboy Member

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    Cowboys RBs combined for 100 yards on 22 carries against Washington, good for over 4.5 yards a carry. That's good enough to win a game in the NFL.

    Look, I'm a big Romo fan. His exceptional play during the second half of the season is what put Dallas in a position to have that game matter. But he was dreadful against Washington, and it wasn't the running game's fault.
  6. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    no. it was the teams fault. i hated that game out of romo as much as anyone, but w/o him, that game would be **** on a nun meaningless.
  7. phildominator

    phildominator Member

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    So, if Romo finally wins a Super Bowl, it still doesn't solidify that Romo's a great QB?
  8. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    winning fixes a lot of things, to be honest. patience however, gets lost along the way. bad decision after bad decision has people thinking the next one will be bad also.

    hence the constant craving here. (anyone get that ref?)

    i get it. but i don't harp on it.

    i'd love to see romo get a ring much like dirk. they did it in spite of the situation.

    i'd love to talk football, moves, changes, potential, but you have to wade through a ton of people "venting" and then claiming it's their right. maybe it is.

    maybe it is.

    or maybe it's just stupidity in motion.
  9. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    This is a funny argument since Brady took over from an alleged stud, led them to a SB and then became a great himself. The fact that he has his team in the hunt year after year is a testament to great QB play. So sho says Kaep isn't the next Brady. Also, finding outliers and comparing them so it makes us look better is just a ridiculous ploy.

    In the history of the NFL SBs are mostly won with teams with top QBs. Plain and simple. Using the Ravens from years ago while ignoring Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, Roethlisberger, etc is a farce. History is on the side of the guys with a QB. If its all team then there wouldn't be a Hall of Fame. Again, I am a Romo fan but when we pull these arguments out along with ones about fellow chokers it just looks desperate.
  10. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Guess who else is at home, all the other QBs in the NFL spanning the spectrum of quality from great to horrid. What's your point? Nobody is arguing that the QB position is the sole determinant of outcomes.

    Flacco would have made the SB last year if his WR hadn't dropped a TD. Flacco did well enough last year so you aren't proving your point that the defense carried him to the SB.

    It's a team game but if you can't acknowledge the fact that a better QB gives you a better chance, you're fooling yourself.

    There's a reason why Tom Brady is in the playoffs every year in spite of the numerous roster changes that have gone on around him since his time began.

    There's a reason Peyton Manning is in the playoffs every year no matter who he has around him or on what team.

    QB is the most important position and to say that the league isn't a QB driven league is just ignorant.

    All other things being being equal, which team prevails the vast majority of the time.......team with a bad QB or the team with a good QB?
  11. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Brees
    Brady
    Manning
    Rogers
    Roethlisberger

    At least one of these 5 guys has been in the Superbowl for like the last 10 years, there's a couple times where 2 of them have been there.

    How anyone can look at the frequency at which strong QBs get to the SB in comparison to the weak ones and draw a conclusion that QB play isn't one of the largest determinants of team success is a mystery.
  12. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    One last bit of discussion.

    The idea that Flacco and Kaepernick prove that QB isn't the most important position is based on:

    1. The perception that they aren't that good. This is entirely subjective on the OPs part.

    2. On the assumption that they haven't played that good in the playoffs. This is entirely false.


    Flacco has a QBR over 100 in each of the games thus far.

    He has 8 TDs and 0 INTs.

    Kaepernick has QBRs of 91 and 127 in his games. 3 TDs, 1 INT but also 200 yards rushing and 2 TDs.


    Regardless of how these guys are viewed, they're playing at a level that is at or above the level of the widely accepted "great" QBs.

    If anything, Kaepernick and Flacco prove to the same extent as those other guys do that QB play is ridiculously important.

    Even if these games are above what we would expect from these players (I'm not saying they are or aren't), it still stands as testament to the value of having good QB play.

    You can look at Eli Manning's numbers too from his Superbowl run last year. Played at ridiculous level.

    In that case, what gives you the best chance of good QB play? We're going to expect poor QBs to constantly give good production? Doubt it.
  13. KB1122

    KB1122 Well-Known Member

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    Aikman
    Aikman
    Young
    Aikman
    Favre
    Elway
    Elway
    Warner
    Dilfer
    Brady
    Johnson
    Brady
    Brady
    Roethlisberger
    Manning
    Manning
    Roethlisberger
    Brees
    Rodgers
    Manning
  14. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    People seem to forget that what happens on the field is what matters, not what someone's reputation is, what they've done before, how much money they make or how they were acquired.

    Flacco outplayed Luck, Manning and Brady; and Kaepernick outplayed Rodgers and Ryan. End of story.
  15. dupree89

    dupree89 Well-Known Member

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    BINGO!!!
  16. nickjamesw43

    nickjamesw43 Active Member

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    I think most of those guys had pretty good run games and defenses behind them. You've pretty much made the OP's point.

    Fun Fact: The team that scored more rushing TDs is 8-1 this postseason. Teams that scored no rushing TDs are 2-7.
  17. nickjamesw43

    nickjamesw43 Active Member

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    Did anybody ever actually say that? Seems like you are torching a strawman to me.

    I would argue that in the regular season having a quarterback is huge. In the post season however almost everyone has a good QB. You can't have a lousy defense and a lousy running game and just expect to out quarterback everybody.

    Having a good QB is usually a necessary condition for post season success but it is in no way sufficient.
  18. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    Really? So you're going to discount all if those guys because they might have had a great run game or defense? That makes no sense. Did u know that Brady's WRs in his first SBs were Troy Brown, Givens and Branch? RB were Antwain Smith and the other Faulk. Again, look at the list. All time greats and guys on their way. In your world Roger Staubach and a host if others are overrated for their work because they had great teams. How about they elevated their teams? The OP us taking one instance and making a sweeping untrue generalization to prop up our situation.

    There is a reason for the Colts being 20 times better this year...Luck over Painter
  19. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

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    And Romo choked against the 30th ranked pass defense and buried his teams chances for the playoffs.
  20. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    So the 2 best QB's in the NFL Colin Kaepernick and Joe Flacco. :lmao:

    As the op has said and it is something I have been saying for years this game is about team not individual it takes a team to win championships and while QB is important it takes a lot more than 1 man. Some do not get it they act as if this game is played by QB and none of the other players matter.

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