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Tanaka Is A Yankee!

Discussion in 'Sports Zone' started by ABQCOWBOY, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. CashMan

    CashMan Well-Known Member

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    They need to let these international players go through the draft, also I though teams were limited on the amount of money they could spend on international signings. Are Japanese players exempt from this?
  2. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Why should I have to do that? Regardless of if they did or if they did not, it doesn't prove that they could not have. In fact, I have already told you that San Diego had the money available to make an offer but they purposefully did not do it, just as they have done for going on 10 years now.

    I am a Yankee fan but that does not mean that I don't understand how MLB works. Seems to me you are saying two different things here. One, Small Market teams can't compete (which is debatable. As I said earlier, until they open their books and prove it, that statement can not be substantiated) and two, small market teams can not afford to pay players because they can't draw. If a team can't draw, then it probably needs to move. You can't blame large market teams for a lack of fan support in other markets. I mean, if you win, you will draw fan support. If you go year after year with no winning and no effort to spend to improve, you probably will suffer from a lack of fan support.

    I still have seen no evidence to prove that any small market team could not have gone out and bid for Tanaka.
  3. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Don't be jealous, that hat looks bad enough on you already. You don't need to help with simple ugly jealousy.

    Thank you for the congratulation thou.


    LOL.......
  4. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I would not be opposed to that but that's not up to MLB. You have the Japanese League also involved and they insist upon receiving compensation for these players. Based on that, you can't put these players in the draft because somebody has to post the cash in order to allow Japan make the player available for MLB. It won't work if they simply get drafted.
  5. CashMan

    CashMan Well-Known Member

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    Why should you do that....Because you are the one telling me the system is not broken, and you know what the answer is, and that is why you will not provide it. If San Diego's payroll is 80mill and they have 45 committed to the current roster, technically they can afford it, but if they still need to fill out their roster, then they can not. The same can be said for Florida, or Pittsburgh.

    My favorite baseball team was the in the 2nd largest market, now with the Dodgers signing the TV deal, they are pushed into the 3rd biggest market, and I think I understand this bidding process is not fair. Yes, small market teams, like the Rays a few years ago can catch lightning in a bottle and compete for a year or 2, but it not sustainable. And why is it no sustainable? Because a team like the Yanks OVERpay for mediocre pays or pay talent that has no MLB experience a ton of money. When the Yanks go out and hand a pitcher, who has yet to throw in the MLB, and is a #2-3 at best $175mill(with the posting fee), it skews the market for the rest of the FAs.

    My evidence is you showing me a small market team making a competitive offer to Tanaka. Show me that, and you win the argument. The Cubs big more than the Yanks but the Yanks included an opt out and a full no trade clause. Why the hell can compete with that?!?!

    If there was not a cap in Football, what do you think Jerry, Snyder, and Allen would do? Teams like Buffalo, Dolphins, and Cardinals would be where the Marlins, Pirates and Padres are.


    Funny how I could pick up, that you were a Yanks fan, based on your argument.
  6. RoyTheHammer

    RoyTheHammer Well-Known Member

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    No one is jealous, my friend. I understand that you have to think that way in order to make this look like a good move for you guys.. but the truth is, that if this guy is as successful as the contract he was just given says he will be, he'll be the first to come from Japan and have a great career as a pitcher in the MLB.

    Good luck with that.. :)
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, but you are the one who is claiming that small market teams could not hope to bid on Tanaka. You are the one who made the claim, it is incumbent upon you to prove that. Not I to disprove it.

    From what I understand, San Diego said that they have 80 Million available to SPEND in FA. Not that they had 80 Million available to pay their current roster commitments. That's plenty to sign Tanaka if that is what you want to do. Your statement about not being able to afford him is inaccurate. As to what Tanaka is, what makes you say that he is a 3rd or 4th pitcher in the rotation? I don't know that anybody can say that he is not a #1. Obviously, Darvish came to the US and he was a number 1. Again, you have no way of knowing if he will be an ace on the staff or if he will be a 3-5 starter in the rotation. It's pretty obvious that the Yankees are betting he will be a 1 or 2. If he is not, then yeah, the Yankees probably paid him too much money. However, if he is a 1 or 2, then the Yankees got themselves a really good deal on Tanaka. The Yankees were not the only team who offered Tanaka money and apparently, they didn't offer the most money. Why is it the Yankees who, as you say, are driving up the price? The Yankees, in fact, have lost out on several big time pitchers in the last few years. Why? Because other teams offered more. It's not just the Yankees but I guess it is easy to target them. The Yankees, just this season, lost out on Cano because another Small Market team offered more money. This complaint about small market teams not being able to afford players could easily be settled by teams simply opening their books to prove it. Until that happens, there is no proof that small market teams can not compete. It's really as simple as that.

    What is a small market team? Is Seattle a small market team? They are ranked 23rd out of 30 teams. They submitted a bid for Tanaka and they were in the final 5 teams that Tanaka had selected as his finalists. They also paid Cano on the 3rd largest deal in MLB History. Does that mean I win the "Argument"? For the record, this is not an argument IMO. You made a statement and you can not support it with any factual data. Therefore, it is an opinion and as such, it is not wrong in my book. It is simply an opinion.

    What's funny is that you seem to think that "Picking me out as a Yankee Fan" is some big deal. I've only stated it openly on this board for like years. For the record, the Yankees are not my favorite MLB team. The Reds are my favorite. Could you somehow also tell that I was a Reds fan as well?

    I thought not. I have no problem with your opinion on small market teams but the facts do not prove your opinion. The opinion is yours and I'm fine with that but I don't accept it as fact. It would be easy enough to prove if any of these small market teams would simply open their books but they will not. Why is that? Seems to me that if they were so disadvantage, they would open their books to prove it so that they could increase their revenue shares. It only makes financial sense to do so, unless of course, they are not as disadvantaged as they might want everybody to believe. I have no proof either way and I have no problem saying or admitting that. But I'm also not making any claims on the subject.
  8. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    On the contrary. I don't have to try and make this look like anything. I mean, there are plenty of opinions out there on the subject so mine is not all that important. What is Darvish? Hideo Nomo was not too bad, especially early in his career. He had two no hitters, a 3.72 ERA in his first 4 seasons, 217 SO a season, and won the Rookie of the year. That's not too bad. I think that Japanese pitchers can be good in the Majors but it's more likely that they will be good early as opposed to later in their respective careers. That is why it was wise of the Yankees to really only sign Tanaka to a 4 year deal.
  9. RoyTheHammer

    RoyTheHammer Well-Known Member

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    Hey, if you think giving a 155 million dollar contract to a relative nobody, who could potentially max out as a solid 2 or 3 in the rotation or could be a train wreck, is a great idea, then more power to ya.

    That kind of contract is ace money. No way he ever lives up to it. You heard it here first.

    (Dan Uggla fans, take note.)
  10. CashMan

    CashMan Well-Known Member

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    1min of searching: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-b...de-formal-offers-masahiro-023708570--mlb.html

    Show me the small market team.

    Seattle has thrown money around, for a few years, and also tapped into the Japanese market with Ichiro, so that is how the Tanaka contract makes sense.
  11. CashMan

    CashMan Well-Known Member

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    Add the $20mill posting fee to the contract. He is a #2 at best, so $25mill(with the posting fee included) a year for a #2 at best SP.
  12. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that we don't know what Tanaka is going to be yet. There are plenty who say he will be better then Darvish and if that's true, that's about as good as you get in MLB. However, if he is only close to what Darvish is, then he is well worth the money.

    I've already admitted that the Yankees have taken a risk here but that's the difference between winning and losing right? If you don't want to gamble, then stay home but don't complain that you never had the chance. You have the chance, you simply elect to play it safe, rather then gamble, which is totally cool with me.

    The Dodgers are paying Zake Greinke 24 Million this season, after having paid him 12 Million as a signing bonus. He's not their ace. Last year, Cliff Lee was paid 24 Million and he was not the Ace of the Philly Staff. Mets Paid Santana 25.5 Million in 2013 and he is far from their Ace of the staff. Teams are paying pitchers and that's only going to continue to rise and guess what, none of these teams are the Yankees. It's not just the Yankees who are increasing salaries with pitchers. Lots of teams are in that business.
  13. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Right, as I have said multiple times, Seattle is a small market team that did offer. 5 minutes work for you on something that I had already told you. Makes me wonder why you would make such a big deal out of it?
  14. CashMan

    CashMan Well-Known Member

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  15. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    And you know that he is a #2, at best how? Are you now going to ask me to prove he is not a #2 at best?
  16. CashMan

    CashMan Well-Known Member

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    You can not prove, he will be a #2 or a #1 or he belongs in the MLB, but you can look at what he does, and how the baseball he threw in the Japanese league is smaller and make a prediction.
  17. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    OK. Again, I will say that this does not prove that Small Market teams could not afford Tanaka. Can you show me any proof that they can not afford to pay Tanaka? They have the same chance as any other team for him.

    However, according to Forbes, Arizona is a small market team. I mean, what is a small market team? Also, I noticed that while you correctly point out that Seattle pulled out at the last minute and was not part of the 5 final teams considered, you also avoid the fact that Seattle did outbid the Yankees for Cano. While he is not a pitcher, he is still a big time contract that was won by a Small Market Team over a Big Market Team. Does that not prove the point that Small Market teams can compete?
  18. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    The Baseball in Japan did not seem to effect Darvish or Kuroda or Shigetoshi Hasegawa or Nomo.
  19. CashMan

    CashMan Well-Known Member

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    Right, so you named the 4 successful ones out of how many that failed?
  20. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I have no idea but if you want to do the homework on that, make sure you context it in comparison to how many American Pitchers also fail. That should keep you busy.

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