Discussion in 'Off-topic Zone' started by StevenOtero, May 24, 2012.
I think the Batman movies are a product of hype.
There's too many people with the same complaint for it to be BS. If I was the only one saying this then I would certainly look inward for the source of the problem, even though it's a problem I've never had with other movies. But with a sizeable number of people making the same complaint from different theaters across the country, I'm going to call out the movie itself.
Just saw it last night and I enjoyed it immensely. Hoping Batman and Robin comes out next year.
The Dark Knight Rises is the end of Christopher Nolan's interpretation of the character. He did an outstanding job and they should collectively remain a masterpiece for a long time.
If someone else is driven to make a Batman/Robin movie, I pray that they strive to meet Nolan's standard. It would be almost criminal if another director attempts such a film without honoring the characters involved.
There clearly is no explaining it to you. Go ahead and start a business with that model, let me know how it goes.
LOL, I see you're trying to take the same high road as Rogah. Unfortunately, your high road is nonexistent. Both of your attempts to belittle me and make me seem like I am some thick headed dumb *** don't fit. While I might be thick headed at times, I'm not dumb. I think both of those adjectives might apply to you two though.
DallasEast and StevenOtero were the only people to bring a legitimate argument to the table. They did a perfect job of explaining and I listened and they were right so there was nothing to argue. However, you and Rogah are wrong. There is plenty to argue. You've offered nothing of substance on the topic. So while you two walk away from this thinking you took the high road, you didn't. You're both just wrong.
Oh and remember when CD's stopped being the number one way to purchase music? Remember when songs on an album became available to purchase one at a time? Remember when the entire music industries business model was forced to change? How did iTunes turn out? ...................It will probably go something like that smarty pants.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but haven't had any difficulty with trailers or TV spots yet, but sound quality can vary greatly from theatre to theatre, even from screen to screen at the same theatre, so it's not hard to think a lot of theatres aren't set up like they should be resulting in a common complaint on the audio.
More often than not I'm disappointed in the theatre's audio setup.
Nevertheless, the fact that you're using CD's as an example in this context is just further proof you haven't considered your stance very well at all.
The desire to be able to watch new releases at home is perfectly reasonable, it just doesn't make any sense from a business standpoint.
That's all I'm saying, and I don't really think there's any legitimate argument to the contrary, again, from a business standpoint.
I think it's a legitimate complaint for some but I think a lot of the problem is that his mouth was covered and most people don't realize how much they rely on being able to read lips to understand what is being said.
I had very few instances where I was like, "What'd he say"? But I could certainly see how it would be a problem for some, eitherway some are making it seem like he was completely incomprehensible throughout the film which is simply untrue.
Yes, rather than lay out your argument, you said this, "There clearly is no explaining it to you. Go ahead and start a business with that model, let me know how it goes."
Yes it does. You're missing the bigger picture. My point was that business models have to change as well as the way industries make a profit. I used CD's as an example of a preferred medium that was forced to change. It's a little more abstract than I would prefer but the point is still there.
You're right it doesn't make any sense, for the film industry. It would require some investment and a lot of negotiating to allow it to happen. It's much easier to stick with the status quo. But, they will be forced to allow it to happen eventually.
It's very, very difficult for me to take anyone serious who automatically dismisses the argument that it could be just as profitable if not more profitable to allow streaming on opening day.
They're good films. However, there are some fans who go to the extreme. In their world, if you take classic super heroes and put them in a film noir setting, you instantly have Citizen Kain.
That's questionable. Let's look at the evolution of mass music delivery for a moment.
The original method delivery of newly created music to consumers involved records. 8-track and cassette tapes was the next stage of evolution, with CD's eventually displacing them as well. Each stage was for delivery of new material was facilitated by newer and affordable music playing platforms: phonographs to tape decks/records to CD players.
Then the internet was graced with a blessing: speed. What must be pointed out here is HOW the recording industry's product was initially made available:
One individual could buy a cassette or CD from a store
Record its contents to his or her computer
Allow an unlimited number of other consumers to access his or her computer and download product
Those unlimited number of other consumers would then allow an unlimited number of more consumers to do the same.
New music could be uploaded and downloaded within moments. Ease of obtaining free music via piracy birthed online entities such as Napster.
The recording industry was being raped of profits. Literally. Cheaper alternatives were mandated or it would have endangered the enormous profitability of all music artists' new audio within the industry. Thus, online delivery systems such as iTunes came into being.
New material from the movie industry is discretionally sold to general public. Straight-to-video product is practically always substandard in terms of profitability to the movie studios to that of first-run films. STV is a second-tier revenue stream, not first-tier.
New movies are distributed outside stores and directly to theaters. It is only when a breakdown in secure access to that product when piracy occurs. This is usually the result of theft by video pirates or opportunists from the studios' premises, somewhere along the mail route or from the theater houses.
New video, which was initially not purchased, but stolen, then takes the pirated audio route and is mass distributed illegally.
That is the problem confronting the movie industry. The solution is securing the distribution system from studios to theaters and keeping their product secure after delivery to theaters.
It is basically this potential for solving or stymying the theft component to the problem, which has and will prevent first-run movies from being delivered straight to customers in the near future. In the meantime, the industry continues to combat piracy by shortening theater runs for their product. The model is rake in as much profit as possible from the availability of superior product via theaters and then undercut video pirates with studio produced product via blu-ray and on-demand shortly thereafter (e.g. within several months of initial release).
Personally, I believe the industry could look at remote electronic delivery to theaters, with enhanced encryption to secure product, and more stringent criminal penalties for downloading streamed direct-to-theater product. It would be a huge gamble and a larger research and development investment to make that a reality, but it would make a huge dent in bootleg video sales.
The Dark Knight isn't Citizen Kane. Who's making those comparisons? TDK is one of the best movies of all-time regardless of genre. If anyone else wants to make an argument for Batman Begins, The Dark Knight Rises or any and all other superhero movie adaptations, that's fine, but I won't be joining them. However, if anyone even remotely dismisses TDK for not being a great film, I will very likely argue against their viewpoint.
There really isn't any legitimate argument to the contrary. All we have here is one clueless person who thinks he knows more than everyone else on the planet. :laugh2: :laugh1:
I'm not pointing my finger at anyone specifically.
However, I've encountered people who think that the sole prerequisite for cinematic greatness is a film that's dark and moody and atmospheric, especially when applied to subject matter initially intended for a younger audience. That's a specious premise, in my opinion. Silent Hill was dark, moody, and atmosphere...and utter crap.
If you think TDK is one of the great all-time films, be my guest. Personally, I'm not into super hero flicks or gritty crime dramas.
Ah, I see. Well, those folks have tunnelvision. I understand where you're coming from now.
Extend this privilege to me. Pick any movie or movies, regardless of genre, which you consider very good or great. In turn, I will give my opinion of where TDK ranks against it or them.
My request is simple. Everyone has favorite movies. Yet, a very good or great movie is just that regardless of whether someone likes it or not.
For example, I hated Se7en. I've seen a number of films, domestic and foreign, in my lifetime, that would disturb others, which never bothered me to the point where I wouldn't re-watch them at some later date.
I've only watched that film once in my lifetime; and I plan never doing so ever again. It disturbed me that much. Even so, Kevin Spacey, Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt were very good-to-brilliant in it. The movie is a classic. I can hate it and admit how good it was too.
I could see Nolan acting in a producer role for a future film. He is one of the producers for Man of Steel. That way he can have some input into future characters. The best way to stay within his frame work is to move away from Batman and skip Robin and go straight into a Nightwing character.
I enjoyed the movie earlier today. A very complex storyline and entertaining. I still view it as a specific genre movie, but one of the best in that particular genre. I would recommend any of Nolan's Batman movies to anyone.
My favorite movie of all time is Signs. But I would never rate it as an all-time great film.
I'm a fan of the horror genre. Some of my favorites there include...
Alien (One of the great films of all time).
Halloween (One of the great thrillers of all time).
Suspiria (An underrated horror film, but not an all time great).
Rosemary's Baby (Excellent film, but slow in parts).
Hellraiser (Book was better, but I credit the film for genuinely terrifying me when I first saw it).
Devil (As you can tell, I enjoy Shyamalan's work, but this isn't an all time great by any stretch.)
Texas Chainsaw Massacre, original (Earns major points for originality, and getting every Texas to believe that the 'real' event occurred just 50 miles from where they lived growing up.)
Blair Witch Project (Once again, originality is key, but the movie inspires divergent opinions.)
I grew up watching sci fi, though I've grown somewhat weary of it over the past decade of my life. My favorites include...
Aliens (One of the great films of all time)
Star Wars, episodes 4-6 (Great films, but the prequels were vastly inferior.)
Star Trek movies (With a few exceptions, the movies are little more than decent and sometimes outright bad, but I enjoyed them.)
I would agree with this primarily on the back of Heath Ledger. See http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4628182#post4628182
Sorry. Got caught up with stuff. :
Where is The Exorcist??????????
Okay, here's how I would rank TDK among all your examples (thanks for the huge list ) WITHOUT commentary from me. Note: I did not include Suspiria (haven't seen it yet) or Devil. I haven't seen Devil since starting a personal Shyamalan boycott after his The Last Airbender. That may have been the last straw even though I thought The Happening would have been. : Loved The Sixth Sense though.
1. Star Wars | The Empire Strikes Back
2. Star Wars | A New Hope
3. The Dark Knight
4. Rosemary's Baby
6. Star Wars | Return Of The Jedi
10. Star Trek | The Voyage Home
11. Star Trek | The Undiscovered Country
12. Star Trek | First Contact
13. Star Trek | The Wrath Of Khan
14. Texas Chainsaw Massacre (Original)
15. Star Trek | Nemesis
17. Star Trek | Generations
18. Star Trek | The Motion Picture
19. Star Trek | Insurrection
20. Star Trek | The Search For Spock
21. Star Trek | The Final Frontier
22. Blair Witch Project
One comment though. I am a huge Star Trek, Star Wars and horror movie fan as well.
[Late Edit] If I had included The Exorcist within this list, I would have ranked it at number two.
I agree 100%. Ledger's performance was legendary. Sorry if his critics or critics of the movie disagree.
[EDIT]For casual comic book readers and non-readers alike, here is a very good summation of The Joker character: http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/The_Joker
For all intents-and-purposes, The Joker became a clown in the 1950's/1960's books/television and in 1970's cartoon fare. But before and after that era of nonsense, The Joker was a mass murdering, homicidal, sociopath. Yes, Jack Nicholson gave a tour de force in the 1989 Batman film, but even his performance did not capture the true fiber of the character.
That's the missing element for some who have seen his performance in The Dark Knight. It's not what they expected. Hello! That was The Joker in his most vile and horrific essense. When I first watched the movie, I was almost in tears. That's the honest truth. I kept muttering to myself, "My God. F-i-n-a-l-l-y someone got it exactly right."