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The Facts in Iraq Are Changing

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by irvin88, Jun 22, 2008.

  1. irvin88

    irvin88 Active Member

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    The Facts in Iraq Are Changing
    A Commentary by Michael Barone
    Saturday, June 21, 2008

    As we enter the second half of the campaign year, facts are undermining the Democratic narrative that has dominated our politics since about the time Hurricane Katrina rolled into the Gulf coast -- most importantly, the facts about Iraq.

    During the Democratic primary season, all the party's candidates veered hardly a jot or tittle from the narrative that helped the Democrats sweep the November 2006 elections. Iraq is spiraling into civil war, we invaded unwisely and have botched things ever since, no good outcome is possible, and it is time to get out of there as fast as we can.

    In January 2007, when George W. Bush ordered the surge strategy, which John McCain had advocated since the summer of 2003, Barack Obama informed us that the surge couldn't work. The only thing to do was to get out as soon as possible.

    That stance proved to be a good move toward winning the presidential nomination -- but it was poor prophecy. It is beyond doubt now that the surge has been hugely successful, beyond even the hopes of its strongest advocates, like Frederick and Kimberly Kagan. Violence is down enormously, Anbar and Basra and Sadr City have been pacified, Prime Minister Maliki has led successful attempts to pacify Shiites as well as Sunnis, and the Iraqi parliament has passed almost all of the "benchmark" legislation demanded by the Democratic Congress -- all of which Barack Obama seems to have barely noticed or noticed not at all. He has not visited Iraq since January 2006 and did not seek a meeting with Gen. David Petraeus when he was in Washington.

    I can remember how opponents of the Vietnam War simply tuned out news of American success when at Richard Nixon's orders Gen. Creighton Abrams pursued a new strategy. Opponents of the Iraq war, including Obama, seem to have been doing the same.

    That's not true of all critics of the Bush administration and its military leaders. The editorial writers of The Washington Post have been paying close and careful attention. And even though they may be temperamentally more inclined to favor Obama's candidacy over John McCain's, they have not been unwilling to take Obama to task for his inattention to American success. Obama, the Post noted tartly on June 7, "has become unreasonably wedded to a year-old proposal to rapidly withdraw all U.S. combat forces from the country -- a plan offered when he wrongly believed that the situation would only worsen as long as American troops remained."

    On June 18, a Post editorial made the same point again and noted that Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyard Zebari told Obama in a phone conversation that a precipitate withdrawal would embolden al-Qaida and Iran. But Obama told ABC News' Jake Tapper he said no such thing. Perhaps he's still trying to avoid facing facts that undermine his narrative. Which might also explain why he said he was willing to meet Mahmoud Ahmadinejad without preconditions while he has not been able to find time to meet with Petraeus.

    Other examples of facts undermining Democratic narratives readily occur. Last week charges were dropped against the seventh of eight Marines accused of atrocities in Haditha. The narrative, peddled by Democratic Congressman (and Marine veteran) John Murtha, of depraved American soldiers massacring innocent Iraqis seems to be falling victim to the facts.

    And the fact of $4 gasoline has undermined the narrative that alternative forms of energy can painlessly supply our needs. Public opinion has switched sharply and now favors drilling offshore and, by inference, in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Democrats are scrambling to argue that drilling wouldn't make any difference -- and that anyway the oil companies aren't drilling enough on federal land they currently lease.

    All of this matters because the rejection of the Republicans in the 2006 elections was a verdict on competence more than ideology. The Republicans seemed incompetent at relieving victims of Katrina, producing success in Iraq and even policing the House page programs. The Democrats could not do worse and might do better. But in the 19 months since November 2006, some important facts have changed.

    If George W. Bush was wrong about the surge from summer 2003 to January 2007, Barack Obama has been wrong about it from January 2007 to today. John McCain seems to have been right on it all along. When asked why he changed his position on an issue, John Maynard Keynes said: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" What say you, Sen. Obama?
  2. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    I notice with the collapse of the Haditha charges that none of the mainstream media that trumpeted it are mentioning it at all.
    And that piece of garbage Murtha has NEVER apologized for that crap.

    And for those that say just because Murtha served it means something-
    Benedict Arnold was a great Hero at Saratoga and before.
    And frankly Murtha is starting to look like another Arnold.
  3. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    Well, how did the Vietnam war turn out after Abrams introduced that new strategy, Barone??

    Answer-- we still lost...

    Perhaps you should choose another example...

    Here's a sampling of some recent headlines about the Iraq war, over on Yahoo:

    Police: Female suicide bomber kills 10 in Iraq

    This one happened in the last few hours, and 35 other people were wounded... it happened in Baghdad...

    U.S. Blames Shiites for Lethal Blast In Baghdad

    This one refers to a truck bombing that killed 65 people on June 18th...

    At Least 51 Are Killed in Blast at Baghdad Market

    This one happened on the 17th, and also wounded some 75 more people...

    So, there's 3 attacks inside Baghdad, in the last 5 days, that have killed 126 people, and wounded at least 110 more...

    I wonder if the folks in Baghdad feel like the surge is "working"??

    Barone is a right wing shill, always has been... and his thesis here is beyond ludicrous... the surge was supposed to pacify Baghdad, obviously Baghdad is nowhere CLOSE to pacified...

    Sorry to introduce facts into the propagandizing...
  4. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    In your world, anybody who isn't kissin' Dubya's butt is a traitor...
  5. Angus

    Angus Active Member

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    Now, now! Just because things aren't going your way . . . . .

  6. Hostile

    Hostile Persona Non Grata Zone Supporter

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    What we really need is for Barbara Eden to put her Jeannie costume back on and blink away all dissidents, repercussions, and troubles. After all war is supposed to be rosy and cheerful once the initial fighting is over.
  7. CowboyFan74

    CowboyFan74 Cowboys Analyst

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    People blow themselves up all the time over there, tell us something we don't know. As if Our presence over there has made this a new thing:rolleyes:
  8. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    Vietnam was not a defeat for the American military. The American military soundly defeated the North Vietnamese on the battlefield. The Vietnam War was "lost" on the political front here in the US at the hands of the Left-wing media and liberals. The media snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. The Left-wing media after WWII in America will stoop to outright lies and accusations to spin defeat for any war the US is involved. The Left wingers (traitors imo) hate the military and hate the Republicans.
  9. Route 66

    Route 66 Well-Known Member

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  10. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    The Tet offensive was the last desperate gasp by the VC and NV army to try and make the media their allies and it worked. Of course a lot of stupid decisions by the Johnson administration and the Pentagon did not help. Between TET and Khe Sanh, the NVA was incapeable of any real offensive for almost two years and the VC were pretty much gone.
  11. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Face it if Americans are not being killed in large numbers or Iraq is not going to hell in a hand basket the democrates and many in the media do not want to talk about it. The only time Iraq is brought back into the lime light is when something bad happens. Is does make one wonder who some people are rooting for?

    Even silverbear tries to bring up only the bad and then evokes Vietnam as if Iraq is even similar to what took place in Vietnam
  12. canters

    canters Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    By any objective means of measuring, things are better in terms of US fatailies. Are things perfect? No. Will BO pull us out of Irag if he wins? NO.

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    That is very interesting.
    Could you elaborate?

    Perception is everything <--- and that is wrong.
  14. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    What is very interesting? And what would you like me to elaborate on?

    Remember that famous picture of the South Vietnamese soldier holding a gun to the head of a NVA prisoner just before he was going to shoot him. I heard there is a story behind that picture that wasn't told at the time. If I remember correctly, that prisoner had just murdered a family member of the guy holding a gun to his head. Funny, after the facts come out the perception changes. Now, who's the bad guy?

    How about Peter Arnett and CNN crying over a supposed baby milk factory getting "blowed up?" It wasn't a baby milk factory. CNN ran the story without ever checking the facts.

    How about Dan Rather and his manila folder from some unknown guy with dirt on Bush. Lo and behold, the documents were fakes easily verified by the Microsoft font used to type the documents which wasn't available in the 60's.
  15. Phrozen Phil

    Phrozen Phil Well-Known Member

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    There are some problems with your information. The Vietnamese soldier was Nguy&#7877;n Ng&#7885;c Loan, who was the Republic of Vietnam's Chief of National Police. The individual who was killed was identified initially as an operative of the the North Vietnamese government who was involved in assassinating Police officers. His actual identity has always been in dispute. The execution was supposed to take place indoors, but was moved outside to "allow for better coverage". General Loan emigrated to the U.S. and opened a Pizza restaurant in Virginia. This picture and others like it helped turn public opinion against the war. He was only doing his duty as it was defined at the time, but the act of killing someone in cold blood generally will turn people's stomachs.

    As for the baby food factory story, the building in question was targeted as a manufacturing facility for chemical weapons. Peter Arnett was challenged on the story, but steadfastly maintained that he was "standing ankle deep" in baby food. It was never confirmed that any weapons were manufactured there. Arnett maintained his jounalistic integrity throughout the time he was there. The truth can be an elusive commodity in the time of war and we should thnk those who will question the "official line" if it means getting at the truth.
  16. hank2k

    hank2k Member

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    Many of the same guys who are trying to spread this "we lost Vietnam because of the liberal media " fiction are the same guys behind the domino theory.

    How did that turn out?

    Vietnam was a war we never should have entered,a war started based on LIES, that cost 50,000 american lives and gained us nothing in return.

    The same chickenhawks who were too gutless to serve in that war (and Im including Bush in that crew) are now the same guys who lied us into Iraq.

    Start the draft tomorrow and see all these pro Iraq war guys heading for the hills.
  17. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Except it was JFK and Johnson who got us stuck in Vietnam but many praise them today.
  18. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Some of us did not need a draft as an excuse to serve our Country.
  19. iceberg

    iceberg nothing is nothing Zone Supporter

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    kinda like anyone who's not slamming bush must be kissing his butt?
  20. CanadianCowboysFan

    CanadianCowboysFan Lightning Rod

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    funny to the British, Benedict Arnold was a true a loyalist who saw the light after his time with the rebellion :cool:

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