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The Garrett System

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Blitzen32, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Harbaugh's a great coach, and the Ravens are a good organization. I wouldn't deny that. I like what they've done, and it's just paid off with an unlikely Superbowl run.

    That doesn't meant that using your Superbowl review article to take an unnecessary shot at another good young coach is anything but an unsubtle request for a little attention for an otherwise boring set of 'observations.'
  2. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    Harbaugh's Ravens are 16-4 against the pathetic Bengals and Browns during that period. I wish the Cowboys could play a soft division schedule like they do each year. Pittsburgh is their only competition in that division every year.

    /reality
  3. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not an unnecessary shot. It's an observation that many have made over the weeks in many articles. It is part of their history now. It shows what many of us have been saying for the last 2 years. You don't need a perfect "program" or "system" in place to make an impact. This SB proves that. Jim took over one of the worst teams in the league and with the pieces they had made it to a NFC Championship game and a SB. John has led a team to 28 games over .500 and multiple playoff runs and a SB win...and should have been a SB game last year. People here are still talking about 8-8 and guys playing hard as "great signs" 2 1/2 years later. That is sad. People like talking about this "Saban system." Well it didn't work for Saban in the NFL either. Maybe that is why he so willingly went back to college.

    The Bengals have been in the playoffs the last 2 years. Please stop making it like the NFC East was such a beast lately. We have almost won the division at 9-7...if we won.. the last 2 years. Philly has stunk at times and so has Washington until this year. Being 28 games over .500 is an accomplishment no matter who you are playing.

    In my book we are wasting guys like Romo and others who could be better in another system.
  4. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Yes, it is an unnecessary shot, because Jason Garrett not taking that job 4 years ago had nothing to do with the Superbowl last night, and mentioning it is just an attempt to get attention from Cowboys fans and Cowboys haters when the rest of the article isn't interesting enough for anybody to talk about. And there are Cowboys fans out there willing to take that bait every single time, and they know it.

    And nobody's saying anything needs to be perfect or that 8-8 is good enough. They're saying that we've got a good coach and that we're falling short for reasons other than coaching and quarterback. There's nothing sad about that, it's just what's happening with this team.

    All that's happening here is that some posters are transferring their adoration for Jim Harbaugh over to John Harbaugh since he happens to be the flavor of the year this year. It's the same reason we're not hearing anything about what a good coach Tom Coughlin is anymore. It has very little to do with the actual job of coaching these guys are doing, and everything to do with the fact that their teams are winning.

    And you can pretty much guarantee that if Jason Garrett had tried a fake fg on 4th and 9 and had come up short and taken 3 points off the board playing as an underdog against team that doesn't have an NFL caliber kicker in a game we won by less than 7 points, the story wouldn't be what a great head coach we've got.
  5. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    He got a win and if Garrett did it and got a win then I, and I don't think 99% would care.

    I actually like the rest of his article too. Considering it was the 10th thing down and I made it that far, I doubt his intent was to rile up Cowboy fans. If that was the case it would have started the list. Saying that is just an attempt to overemphasize the "importance" of the Cowboys. We haven't done anything to be that important so I don't think anyone is being baited into that article considering this is what took me to it
    I also like to find out why we are falling short then? I agree it is not QB but many of the things holding us back vs the teams we just watched come down to coaching...most penalized, time management, play calling, etc. So what are the things you are seeing? The Ravens had to revamp their O-line ...only 2 guys played the same position all year...and their D had issues all year. So I just want to know. This debate is on Garrett's system and right now there are guys who are turning it around faster, with less and making noise vs following a "system" that somehow flutters around .500 while guys play hard.
  6. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    There's no denying that Cowboys hype--positive or negative--sells amongst NFL fans.

    As to what's wrong with the team, I don't want to derail this particular thread, but in a nutshell, it's been not enough takeaways on defense and too many mistakes in the passing game. And, yes, some of that very definitely is on the head coach. I just believe he's actively fixing it and that process got derailed this season by the juggling of the OL early and by the accumulation of key injuries on defense afterwards.
  7. Blitzen32

    Blitzen32 Member

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    :rolleyes:

    The Bengals have made the playoffs two straight seasons. They did it with a 10-6 record this year, which was better than our first place team.

    Overall, the AFC North sent 3 teams to the playoffs last year. That's 50% of the total teams from that conference.

    They sent 2 again this season.

    Baltimore had the 4th toughest strength of schedule overall this season too.

    Also, the Browns finished with a better record than the Eagles, so the "soft division" talk is a bit convoluted.

    Try again.
  8. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Since 2008, the Ravens are 16-4 against the Bengals and Browns .. just backing in to the playoffs is not a baseline for quality. I wish the Cowboys could play 4 games like that every year. Even the 8-8 non-playoff Cowboys this year beat both of those teams. Ravens are a good team, but they are by no means an awesome team. The Cowboys almost beat them at their house and would have had our kicker not had one of his only two misses this year at the end. Winning a Super Bowl is always about two things, getting into the playoffs and getting hot at the right time.

    /reality
  9. Blitzen32

    Blitzen32 Member

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    They've qualified for the playoffs every year that he has been coach there, and they won their division the last two seasons. A missed FG is all that kept them away from the SB last season.

    Sure, they were underdogs on the road in a couple games this year, but "unlikely Super Bowl run" is a bit far-fetched.

    :laugh2:

    What's funny here is that in your own senile world, you've actually grouped Garrett and Harbaugh together into the same class.

    An actual "good [young] coach" works with the talent that he has and uses it to produce rapid results. That's what we've seen with Payton, Carroll, Fox, both Harbaughs, Frazier, etc.

    It doesn't take a half decade to turn it around in the NFL like Garrett-advocates want everyone to believe.
  10. Blitzen32

    Blitzen32 Member

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    Interesting, because that's exactly what the Cowboys have almost done for two straight seasons, and all the Garrett homers have been citing it as a great sign of "progress".
  11. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I'm not going to get baited into a debate with you on the topic because you're just trying to be insulting and negative just to get a reaction, but for the record, yes, I think Jason Garret is a good young coach, and no, I don't think it takes a half decade to turn a team around.
  12. Blitzen32

    Blitzen32 Member

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    Those meddling kickers :rolleyes:

    [IMG]


    The teams yesterday were in a different class than Dallas. We're not equipped enough in the trenches to make any sort of run in January.

    I'm also surprised that any objective Dallas fan who watched that coaching chess match can sit here with a straight face and actually say they are content with Garrett.
  13. Blitzen32

    Blitzen32 Member

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    Sure lets discuss without insults.

    We're coming up on 3.5 years of Garrett now, and we still haven't made the playoffs. We've had zero progress over the two seasons if you look strictly at records. I was told that Garrett needed a full offseason to get it organized, and now that he finished 8-8 again, I am being told that he needs players x, y, z, etc to make it all work.

    Meanwhile, both of these Harbaughs inherited teams that were below .500 and they immediately got the respective teams back into the playoffs within one season. That seems like textbook type #1 vs. type #2 coaching examples to me.

    At the very least, I don't understand how you can put Garrett into the same class as either Harbaugh. This is a results-oriented league, and only one of those 3 coaches has yet to yield any fruit (division title, playoff win, conference title, SB title, etc).

    It seems as though Garrett advocates have very little to go on other than hope and berating/undervaluing actual successful coaches.
  14. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    Since Harbaugh took over, the AFC North has 165 wins, 11 playoff berths, 4 conference championship game appearances, 2 super bowl championships and a runner up.

    In the same time span, the NFC East has 165 wins, 7 playoff berths, 2 conference championship game appearances and 1 super bowl championship (no runner ups).

    The equal number of wins speaks to the fact that, while the Browns are perennially awful, the rest of the division (Pitt and Bmore) are solid enough consistently that the division wins as much as anyone. Their success in the playoffs is basically unmatched in the NFL. The only thing the East has over the North is parity, where any of the 4 teams are capable of winning it every season (they're all pretty "pathetic").

    The funny thing to me is, if we HAD been unfortunate enough to play in the AFC North for the past five years, we probably would have been sitting with the basement-dwelling Browns, wishing we could play in a crappy division like the NFC East that is basically up for grabs every year, instead of the North where you are battling from behind to try and catch Pitt/Bmore every season.
  15. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Well-Known Member

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    Ouch.

    Its a long road from the days of Dallas always being in the hunt. Every one is happy the team didnt quit this year or that at least its not 5-11 again. Horrid for one the NFL's iconic teams thats been reduced to a .500 club under the management of the Jones family.
  16. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I'm sorry, I should have been clearer. It's not that I don't want to go back and forth with you because you were being insulting, though you were. I don't want to go back and forth with you because I think you're just here to bait on a topic rather than to discuss the team sincerely, and I don't particularly like your tone as a poster or the fact that you rely on disingenuous arguments (eg, 'we're coming up on 3 and a half years of Garrett') in order to try to get a reaction.
  17. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    It's bad man. The Cowboys are awful, the East is awful, we're a long way from the glory days and we just had to watch Ray Lewis fake cry for a month. At least we have great forums like this one to vent on!
    Might have been easier to ignore him, rather than write a paragraph to psychoanalyze/insult him.

    #justsayin
    #hashtag
    #aliciakeysisawful
  18. Fletch

    Fletch To The Moon

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    Year three of The Process! I think this will be a really good year. I really do.
  19. weaver21

    weaver21 Member

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    The Cowboys aren't awful. You wanna see awful? Watch a damn Jaguars game. Or watch a Chiefs game or Browns game ... that's awful.
  20. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    Uh, no. No one tries to build a Super Bowl winner by backing into the playoffs and getting "hot". Well, at least not good teams

    You do it by having good talent and good coaching. You get that by having a strong organization with a long term vision. That is where Dallas is lacking right now

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