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The sordied past of the Manziel family.

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by erod, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    Where's the evidence that he took money for the autographs? Show it to me.
  2. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit I am a bit confused. I asked you if you believe he took money for autographs, you responded "of course he did" indicating we both agree he took money for autographs, but now you're demanding I show you evidence of something you already admit you believe happened.

    Honest question: What am I misunderstanding here? Why are you demanding to see evidence of something which, by your admission, you agree happened?
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  3. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    You're pretty slow. He hasn't done anything wrong without evidence. I believe he took money. But without the evidence, he'll be playing opening day.
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  4. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think this is very, very dangerous. At this point, TAM can probably claim that while Manziel may be guilty, the University had no knowledge of his behavior and that would probably stick. That would mean that the Aggs probably only lose Manziel. However, if they play him and he does not stick to the straight and narrow, and lets be honest here, that is a big if, then they are guilty of NCAA violations because they can not claim that they did not know or were unaware. People are going to continue to look for stuff on him and they are going to find it. Manziel is not a guy, IMO, who listens. He is a guy who wants it his own way and that's exactly what he's going to do. There is no good reason, at all, for doing those signings yet he went ahead and did it. Can you trust that guy? Sumlin would be smart to simply let Manziel leave TAM IMO. It's a much safer bet for his program in the long run IMO.
    Passepartout likes this.
  5. Passepartout

    Passepartout Member

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    Manziel really has hurt himself. Not just in the draft or with his team. But in the game called life. As he wants to do things his own way. On his own time. Having had first hand experience on doing that myself but not as bad as Johnny Football. He is doing everything at the expense of others. Still he has a lot of growing up to do.
  6. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    Texas A&M really has nothing to lose. If they play him and evidence comes forth of him taking cash then they may forfeit those games. If they don't play him, they'll probably lose games anyway. But to my point, he's not done anything most of us have done at age 20. I can't understand people piling on him for the minor things he's done. People need to get off their high horses and try to remember when they were 20. And Manziel doesn't listen? Please. He led his team to an 11-2 record, victories over #1 Alabama and Oklahoma in the Cotton Bowl and won the Heisman. You don't do that by not listening.
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Really? I think he's done all kinds of stuff most of us haven't done at age 20. I am not so old that I don't remember 20. Maybe your 20 was very different so maybe you have different recollection then I do but don't try and tell me that we were all doing the same stuff cause I can telll you that 20 was not like that for me.

    He should have been suspended last year and never even seen the field. Only because Sumlin made a personal plea to the SEC was he able to play at all. No, he doesn't listen. I think that's pretty clear. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. If yours is that he does listen, that's fine. Have at it.
  8. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    I don't sit high on the horse. At 20, (during the mid-70's) I did some dumb things. Much worse than Manziel. Lot's of my fellow Marines did the same. He's a choir boy comparetively speaking. So I understand. You are apparently too good to understand and are making some harsh judgements.
  9. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    And you say I am the one on the high horse? That's fine but let me just ask you, what happened back in the 70s, when you were in, when you broke Regs? Did the Corps trot out the Jag Corps to come and try and make sure you didn't received discipline for breaking Regs or did you receive instruction in a proficient manner?

    Young people screw up and that's fine but that is not a reason to look the other way and act as if it's OK to do so. It's certainly not a reason for you to pass judgement on anybody regardless of what your personal feelings might be. You don't have to sit atop a horse to be guilty of passing judgement apparently.
  10. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    My Staff NCO's covered for me so that I wouldn't get in trouble. They knew that 20 year olds make stupid mistakes and it was nothing to lose a career over. And like I said, the things I did were worse than what Manziel's done by a long margin. Trust me.
  11. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Sounds like a different Corps to me but hey, that's OK.

    And for what it's worth, I said that he has done all kinds of stuff I haven't done. It's a true statement.
  12. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    Good for you. Most of us aren't perfect.
  13. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    None of us are perfect but I'm sure you have already arrived at that conclusion.
    AmberBeer likes this.
  14. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm surprised that you don't like more of my posts. Thank you for the acknowledgment. I have to say that I didn't really expect that from you.

    Have a good day.
  15. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    Now, now... no need to get snippy justbecause your rambling incoherent posts make no logical sense whatsoever.
    Oh, gee, what evidence is there... oh I dunno... only 6 guys who say he did it, one of whom has a videotape of him doing it where, on that videotape, he says "we never did this".... but yeah, besides the videotape and all that first hand testimony, there's nothing.... well, nothing but about 4,000 signed Johnny Manziel photos floating around out there....
  16. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. Right now, A&M is safe. They aren't going to get into any trouble for having played him last year. But if they play him this upcoming season, they are taking a big chance they may get the Ohio State treatment. Whatever plausible deniability they may have had is now out the window.

    I dunno... maybe it's worth taking the chance for a player of Manziel's caliber in a school that is good, but certainly not contending for national title year in and year out....
  17. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    There's absolutely no evidence he took money.
  18. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    You keep repeating that over and over on the silly hope you might actually fool someone into believing it. Who knows, maybe you might even fool yourself. Meanwhile, please let me school you on how the real world operates:

    Fact is there are multiple first hand eyewitness accounts saying Manziel took money for autographs. In every single court of law in this country, firsthand eyewitness reports to an event is EVIDENCE that it happened. (The NCAA, of course, is not a court of law so they actually don't need to establish as high of a burden of proof)

    There is a video of him engaging in one such signing for a known autograph broker (not a charity, not a team function). That is EVIDENCE. Now you're thinking "that's not evidence because that doesn't prove he did it for money." So let me explain to you a concept called plausible deniability. Is it PLAUSIBLE to believe that he did that signing for a known autograph broker (not a charity, not a team event) and signed his name HUNDREDS of times without accepting payment? The answer is no, that is not even remotely plausible. Only a moron would believe he did those signings for free and there is ZERO plausible deniability on his part, especially considering his "I never did this" remark made on the video. Therefore, the video of him at that signing is evidence; indeed it is quite damning evidence at that.
  19. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    "Plausible cause" wont' be applied in this case because of the high visibility of Manziel. The only way he gets punished is if one of the autograph brokers show proof. But they're not going to do that because it permanently ends not only their business but all autograph broker's businesses.
  20. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    Another silly statement. If an autograph broker ratted out on Manziel, it wouldn't effect the autograph broker industry one bit (other than it might make college athletes think twice about signing for cash - but it certainly wouldn't effect the pros). So long as there are people willing to buy autographs, and there are plenty of us who do that, there will be brokers. And so long as there are brokers, there will be people willing to pay athletes to do signings.

    As for "probable cause" being applied... the NCAA is a corrupt organization doing everything they can to turn a blind eye to Manziel's obvious transgressions. I am sure CBS is putting an awful lot of pressure on them to do so because the whole country wants to see A&M-Alabama in just 4 short weeks. So yeah, they're not going to talk to the eyewitnesses nor are they going to actually do anything that resembles a real investigation. However, the NCAA's willful ignorance does not mean Manziel is actually innocent. He is guilty and the whole country knows it.

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