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Theology Continued

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Mike 1967, Mar 24, 2005.

  1. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    Dooms - all that ultimately matters, as you have already stated, is:

    "In the end we all believe the same and that is only through Christ can we find salvation. "

    If you believe that Christ is the only way and that the path to Salvation is not Christ plus some work on your part....then you have the core in hand and none can take it away. If you have this core.....then you can call yourself whatever you want...it does not matter.

    And if the Catholic Church holds to this core.....then I retract my previous statements.
  2. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    That is what is being taught and I agree that is all that should matter.
  3. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    Then I will call you my brother :)
  4. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    It is strange how we get caught up in our differences and overlook our common ground.
  5. CanadianCowboysFan

    CanadianCowboysFan Lightning Rod

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    I thought Roman Catholics prayed to the saints, not that they asked the Saints to pray for them (after all Saints are dead so how can they pray)?
  6. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    You thought wrong. We do not pray to the saints we ask for their prayers for us just as you would ask anyone else to pray for you. However most Catholics I know do not do this nor do we spend time in church talking about the saints. A normal Mass consists of a reading from the Old Testament, a reading from the New Testament. The priest then gives the homily (sermon), we then profess our faith then we have the Eucharist (body and blood of Christ) There is a bit more to the mass than just this but just giving a short version of what takes place during a mass.
  7. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Most of the time I enjoy hearing about other religions and have attended friends churches in the past and I have a lot of respect for them. All I ask is that the same respect be shown in return.
  8. jay cee

    jay cee Active Member

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    I asked a question in the other thread, and no one ever answered. Who had the authority to change one of God's commandments?

    God said to remember the 7th day (sabbath) and keep it holy right? Well sometime after the resurrection God's day became sunday.

    If he had wanted it changed, why didn't he specifically say that Sunday is now my day? He thought so much of Saturday that he made it one of his 10 COMMANDMENTS. Or better yet, why didn't he make Sunday his day in the 1st place.
  9. jay cee

    jay cee Active Member

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    Yeah, that religion is a sticky subject. It's tough not to take this stuff personal. But try not to let it upset you. Everyone has opinions and none of them are worth much.
  10. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    First of all I did answer it in the other thread. The reason that it is now celebrated on Sunday is because it is the day that Christ rose from the dead. It is the symbolic day of a new beginning. It is also the first day of the week. And Jesus said that anyone would work on a Sabboth if the need was there. So you can keep the Sabboth Holy no matter what you are doing.
  11. jay cee

    jay cee Active Member

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    I was asking who made that decision. Did God sign off on someone changing one of his commandments?

    I have seen many scriptures where it says to remember the sabbath and keep it holy, but I have never seen a scripture where God says it's ok to change the sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day.

    That sounds like a decision made by man to me.

    Some people say that it does not matter anymore and that may be true, but couldn't they just as easily say that his other commandments no longer matter either?
  12. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    The answer to your question is no.

    And do you know what the Sabboth means?
  13. jay cee

    jay cee Active Member

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    Be more specific please.

    The term Sabbath? Not really, I was just taught that it was God's holy day. We were raised as Baptists, and I always wondered how it got moved from Saturday to Sunday.
  14. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    OK. No you can't say that God's comamndments no longer matter. That was what the No was to. As for the Sabboth:

    It comes originally from the Aramaic to greek. The greek word is "sabbata" which means week or translated specifically, the first day of the week. That is why I said in the other thread it represented the first day or as some like to say the rebirth because that was the day Jesus rose from the dead. So look at your calander and tell me what the first day of the week is? I am not trying to be cocky on this just trying to tell you why it's celebrated on Sunday as opposed to Saturday as the Jews do. I hope it helps.
  15. jay cee

    jay cee Active Member

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    So did it change immediately after the death of Jesus? How many years went by with Paul and the Disciples teaching the word? None of them ever said that the Sabbath had been changed.

    I'm not trying to be cocky either. If God was so specific at one time that he wanted it to be the 7th day? Why wasn't it written in the scriptures that it was to be changed to the 1st day?

    I have not seen it in the Bible, some man may have written about in a book, much the way that you have explained it to me. And it does sound reasonable, but it stands to reason IMO, that if god wanted one of his commandments to be changed, he would have spelled it out in his scriptures.
  16. tyke1doe

    tyke1doe Well-Known Member

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    The Seventh Day Sabbath was a Commandment, but it was also part of the Old Testament ceremonial laws.

    Ceremonial laws were to foreshadow the work of the Messiah or some aspect of the Kingdom of God. And because they were ceremonial, they were to be done away with when the real Messiah - Jesus - came.

    The Seventh Day Sabbath foreshadowed Jesus and his messianic work. Mankind "works" for God (trying to keep His commandments, which none of us do), but God provided within the Commandments a day of rest. Spiritually speaking, Christ is our rest. We cease from "working" to gain God's favor and rest in Christ.

    That is why when the Pharisees accused Jesus of working on the Sabbath, Jesus said Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. The son of man is even LORD of the Sabbath. Now why would Jesus make such a statement?

    Because HE is the Sabbath. Therefore, in recognition of his messianic office, in recognition of the fact that He is the Messiah and is God's official, rest, we worship on Sunday - the Lord's Day.

    By doing so, we acknowledge that JESUS IS OUR REST.

    And that is why we don't observe the Sabbath the same way - because it was a ceremonial law as well as a commandment. But we ARE keeping the Sabbath Day commandment by believing in Jesus and RESTING on his finished work on the Cross.

    Hope this clears the dilemma up for you. :)
  17. jay cee

    jay cee Active Member

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    Thanks Tyke, that's the best explanation I've ever heard. Do you know when the change was made? It did not seem to have been changed during the time that John and the Disciples were teaching. They seem to have been still observing the 7th day Sabbath.

    Can you give me some scriptures where it shows that the Old Testament laws were done away with once Jesus came? I've heard that before.

    And another thing kind of off topic. Does the whole tone of the New Testament and Old Testament seem very different to you?

    I have always felt that way, from the time I was little kid reading the set of Bible stories my parents bought for us.

    It's weird, the old testament is all about God and a specific group of people the Israelites, (his chosen people) and the New Testament is about converting people to follow Christ.

    In the old testament God is a straight hardcore killer, and will stop at nothing to give his chosen people their promised land, if they will only obey his commandments. And will bring down unspeakable horrors on their enemies, and them also if they fall away from him.

    In the new testament, he is a lamb. And he is asking that we follow him. He is no longer speaking to his Chosen people, but to all people.

    Not a big deal, but I have always wondered if other people noticed that kind of stuff.
  18. Hoov

    Hoov Senior Member

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    I also wondered about God giving land inhabited by others to His chosen people. I f I showed up at someone's door with a shotgun and said "God has given this house to me, now get out", I don't think that would go over very well.

    But seriously, what the Hebrew people did to those occupying the "promised land" in the name of their God, well that would not make for good forign policy today.
  19. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    Exodus Chapter 20 verse 8-11: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work; you, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

    First, Sabbath means rest. So Israel is to remember the rest day. “Remember the Sabbath day” means “Don’t forget to take a day off”.

    Second, “Keep it holy,” means set it aside from all other days as special. Or specifically, as verse 10 says, keep it “to the Lord,” or “for the Lord.” In other words, the resst is not to be aimless rest, but God centered rest. Attention is to be directed to God in a way that is more concentrated and steady than on ordinary days.

    Third, the holy rest day should be one out of every seven. Work six and rest one…..that’s the pattern prescribed in the ten commandments. Note that it does not say that the Sabbath has to be the last day of the week or the first day of the week. The concept of the weeks is not even mentioned. The command is simply to work six, rest one.

    Fourth, verse 11 leads us to the basic point of the commandment. It is based on God’s rest after creation. This is taken from Genesis 2: 2-3.

    “And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all his work which he had done in creation.”

    Both Genesis 2:3 and Exodus 20:11 say that God "blessed" and "hallowed" the rest day. What does it mean for God to bless a day? I think it means that he makes the day a time of blessing. When God blesses a man, the man becomes rich with blessings. When he blesses a land, the land becomes rich with blessings. So when he blesses a day, that day becomes rich with blessings.
    And what does it mean that he hallows the day? "Hallows" is the same word as "sanctifies." It means set the day aside for special focus on what is holy, namely God and his holy works.

    God is not concerned with the letter of the law but with the Spirit of the law. He in not concerned with which day we set aside but is concerned that we set 1 day out of 7 aside a day to him.

    As far as the history behind the change from Saturday to Sunday…… the real reason for why the church came to count the first day of the week as her day of rest and worship is that the Lord of the Sabbath rose from the dead on the first day of the week (John 20:1). Just like the work of the first creation was finished on the seventh day of the week the work of the new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17; GAlatians 6:15; Ephesians 2:10) was finished on the first day of the week by the resurrection of Jesus. So from the very earliest days Christians have set aside the first day of the week as their usual day of rest and worship.
  20. Mike 1967

    Mike 1967 New Member

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    He is still speaking to his Chosen People....because all who believe are his Chosen people. The context of the Chosen People has simply changed from being the Jews in the Old Testament to being believers (Both Jew and Gentile) in the New Testament.

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