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There are many ways to skin a cat

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by perrykemp, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    One thing I think the season numbers fail to acknowledge is that the Ravens played well above those numbers in almost every aspect in the postseason.

    They got hot.

    I think their defense had multiple takeaways in each game. 10 through the postseason, I believe.

    Flacco was top notch all throughout the playoffs.

    73/126, 1140 Yards, 11 TDs, QBR: 117 (about, used some online calculator)


    Similar story for the Giants last year. I think there's definitely different means to get to the playoffs but once you are there I think the team who's peaking at the right time is the one who is going to come out on top.
  2. perrykemp

    perrykemp Well-Known Member

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    The Ravens even, to a certain extent, went against the grain on the "team playing best at the end of the regular season" is the most likely to go on a tear in the playoffs theory.

    They lost 4 of their last 5 and fired their OC.... not exactly the definition of "on a roll".
  3. lostar2009

    lostar2009 Active Member

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    Romo vs Flacco

    Romo sack 36 times
    Flacco sack 35 times

    Romo qbr 90.5 comp% 65.6 TD 28
    Flacco qbr 87.7 comp% 59.7 TD 22

    The main difference ???
    Romo 19 ints 3 Fumbles
    Flacco 10 ints 4 fumbles

    Its hard to win games if someone on the team is always turning the ball over.
  4. Clove

    Clove Shrinkage

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    They had great QB play and great coaching through-out the post season.
  5. nake

    nake Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Ravens don't have GM Jerry Jones.
  6. Blitzen32

    Blitzen32 Member

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    Ravens dodged a bullet by not getting Garrett. Harbaugh has won more playoff games than Jimmy Johnson in his first 5 seasons. Garrett can't even make the playoffs.

    The one constant with all these Super Bowl teams is SOLID coaching.
  7. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Time and again it's about being just good enough to get into the playoffs, them getting hot when you're there. Little rhyme or reason to it beyond that.
  8. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Not that this post deserves a response, but Romo threw for a lot more passes, and those extra passes are tough ones because it meant he was playing from behind.
  9. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    The oline is more than pass ptotection. The running game helped Flacco.
  10. Royal Laegotti

    Royal Laegotti Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy!

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    What this Ravens team had that put them over the top was team comradery. They rallied around the idea of Ray's last game. They loved playing together as a team and had fun. They've been saying this the entire post season. It's the intangible factor, the 'X factor'. Somehow it elevates the play of the entire team. When this kind of thing comes together it's more valuable than talent or a system of plays or a style of play.
  11. Wahoo Cowboy

    Wahoo Cowboy Member

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    I find all the posts about the difference between the Cowboys and Ravens being coaching a bit silly. Yeah, I know, you don't like Garrett. But you have to do better than that.

    I think it's apparent from hairic's stats that the biggest difference between the Ravens and the teams they played is QB production. As a reminder,

    "Baltimore postseason passer rating:
    Defense: 72.4 (best of 12 playoff teams)
    Offense: 114.7 (best of 12 playoff teams)"

    The guy responsible for the Dallas defense got fired for a lack of turnovers and for allowing passer ratings of 94.7 (2012, bottom 8th of league) and 88.4 (2011, bottom 4th of league) during his two seasons on the job.

    The guy responsible for the Dallas offense has had a less-than-9th place finish in total passer rating only twice since he's been on the job, in 2008 (13th) and 2010 (12th). Both of those seasons, Tony Romo missed significant time.

    So what, you say. It hasn't amount to a hill of beans!

    It hasn't, but you can't just yell COACHING. The Ravens, with their superior coaching, gave up two return touchdowns in the game against the Broncos. And this was with their head coach being a former special teams coordinator! But they won that game, because they held Peyton Manning to a 88.3 passer rating to go along with a lost fumble. Oh yeah, and Jacoby Jones got open for a 70-yard TD with one minute left...but of course he did, he's got the best coaches in the business.

    Things on the Cowboys offense aren't perfect. There were too many turnovers and too many slow starts last year. But until the defense stops getting shredded by opposing QBs, this team isn't going anywhere.

    Joe Flacco? The guy who just won Super Bowl MVP, who has the most postseason road wins of all time for a QB? Let's look at a couple of those road wins. 2008, @ Miami, 59.1 passer rating, Ravens win 27-9. 2009, @ New England, 10.1 (!) passer rating, Ravens win 33-14.

    Tony Romo is going to have bad games. All QBs do. He might even have bad games more often than what the "elite" QBs do, or maybe his bad games are just particularly bad; without a lot of data, I can't say definitively. What I can say is that, for a long time now, the team has not been able to win in spite of Romo's bad games. And I think a big reason is the success opposing QBs have against us, especially as of late. The last time Dallas has had a pass defense that wasn't putrid was in 2009. Hmmm....what happened that year?

    So what's my point? Well, okay, maybe it is about coaching. If it is, the right Dallas coach got fired.
  12. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    Coaching matters, dont think it doesnt. However, you also have to have the players to go along with the coaching.

    So whats the problem in Dallas, coaching or players? If the truth be told, I think it is a combination of both. We have very poor coaching and in alot of areas (like o-line and safety), we flat out suck.

    So when you have bad coaching and mediocre players, you end up watching the SB from your couch every Feburary.
  13. Wahoo Cowboy

    Wahoo Cowboy Member

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    Now, if you want to say Dallas has not taken the right approach to deal with opposing QBs having such great success against them, then that's a discussion that's worth having.

    You can argue that the scheme was not sound, and that is apparently the position Dallas took in firing Rob Ryan and hiring Monte Kiffin.

    You could also argue that the way the defense is built is not sound, and that Dallas would be better off investing resources in the front seven rather than in the secondary. This would presumably be along the lines of taking Brockers and Wagner last year or not signing Carr to such a big deal. Let's look at what Rob Ryan thought following the 2011 season:

    "We spoke with Dallas Cowboys Defensive Coordinator Rob Ryan about their needs in the 2012 draft, and his sentiment was very clear. 'I’m only looking at DBs. Nothing else. DBs.'"
    http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs/sports/2012-01-27/the-nfl-beat-scouting-the-senior-bowl/

    Well, looks like the two might have gone hand-in-hand. I'm excited to see how Kiffin builds the defense, and I expect better results (not that that would be very hard).
  14. Wahoo Cowboy

    Wahoo Cowboy Member

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    Oh, and one more piece of evidence that the secondary-heavy approach may have been Rob Ryan's doing; the courting of Nnamdi Asomugha, his former player.
  15. whynot

    whynot Active Member

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    This, the ravens went on a run at the right time. The cowboys went on a run this season too, but too early to make the playoffs (although if they hadn't gone on a run when they had they never would have sniffed the playoffs)

    Like a lot of things in sport it's about form and timing, giants had it, ravens had it, and teams that are supposed to be bigger than that (ie the pats last two seasons) can't overcome it either.

    Best thing to do is be confident. Winning a game or two helps, winning a bunch of games at the business end of the season helps immeasurably.

    I'd say confidence is the cowboys biggest problem right now.
  16. anj113

    anj113 Member

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    Their QB won them a Super Bowl. Flacco was terrific in these playoffs. It takes acts like that to win championships. We have no such thing.
  17. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    Let’s not forget the stellar performance the Cowboys defense did in generating turnovers when blaming Romo for our turnover differential.

    Oh wait..
  18. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how anyone who watched 2011 can argue that a secondary upgrade wasn't necessary.

    The Saints couldn't stop anyone from passing and not even a high scoring offense could overcome it.
  19. Wahoo Cowboy

    Wahoo Cowboy Member

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    And yet the pass defense was worse.

    2012 passer rating of 94.7 vs 88.4 in 2011 (93.8)
    2012 YPA of 7.6 vs 7.6 in 2011 (8.1)
    2012 completion % of 62.6 vs 61.7 in 2011 (61.5)
    2012 22 TDs allowed vs 24 in 2011 (31)
    2012 7 INTs (!) vs 15 in 2011 (15)

    It's true that a few things can be said about these numbers. There were a lot of injuries on defense. Some people think INTs are "lucky" (I don't). But the bottom line is, Dallas doled out a $50.1 contract with $26.5 million guaranteed, a first round pick, and a second round pick so what happened in 2011 wouldn't happen in 2012. Not only did it happen again, but we regressed.

    Those numbers in parentheses up there? Those are the Saints numbers. Yep, we had basically the same quality pass defense as the historically-bad Saints.

    Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't have attempted to upgrade the secondary. At the very least, we needed to replace Newman. And of course hindsight is 20/20, but don't you think we'd be in a better spot with Brockers and Wagner instead of Claiborne or Carl Nicks instead of Carr? Really, how much worse would the pass defense have been?

    Looking at these numbers, it should be no surprise that Rob Ryan doesn't have a job. We got his type of guys in the secondary to run his type of defense, and it failed spectacularly. Thank goodness we didn't end up signing Asomugha; Carr is young, at least.
  20. Wahoo Cowboy

    Wahoo Cowboy Member

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    Oh, and about those injuries. This is just a little theory, admittedly. The Dallas defense was decimated in the middle, and it showed in YPC allowed (4.5 in 2012 vs 4.1 in 2011), yards per game allowed (125.2 in 2012 vs 99.1 in 2011), and touchdowns allowed (17 in 2012 vs 10 in 2011). I understand why those numbers were worse.

    I do not understand how the pass defense regressed significantly as well, especially in INTs, when the entire point was to go out and get "ballhawks". 2011 only saw 34 more pass attempts, so that's not it.

    I think the bottom line with this team is that it's not going anywhere until it can stop one-upping franchise-worst pass defenses. I hope Kiffin can help out in that regard.

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