Those for JGarrett in 2013

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by DenCWBY, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. DenCWBY

    DenCWBY Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all your thoughts pro JG people. It's certainly interesting to see what information was provided or lack thereof when all I ask for is some factual information to support a case of JG.
    Yes a "stupid" thread indeed is basically one that cannot be answered by those called out to provide their own thoughts with supporting data. It's not a trick question or exactly rocket science fellas.
    We'll the good news is there's a lot of good hostility built up so the panel in here will be lighting up this site come Sunday night.
    My own thoughts on it:
    • JG has gotten rid of poor talent like B James, Gurode and a few others that needed to go long before.
    • He handles the press well and doesnt look or sound like a befumbling idiot in front of the microphone.(see WP Pressers)
    • I think the team does try to play for him which is easliy supported by their 2nd half play as of late.
    • For all intent, at least JG is now more open to making more effective 2nd half adjustments (but all for the wrong reasons).
    • As brought up earlier churning the HC position does not guarantee anything as we have seen given our owner.
    There's a few bones there for you to take as positives for JG however IMO there are still way too many negatives that outweigh this list in importance provided by the other side. I'll spare you a new thread asking for the negatives on JG since this was such a worthless thread.
    Good night and thanks for playing.
  2. cml750

    cml750 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I believe the reason they are doing better in the second half is because Garrett is somewhat out of the picture. They fall behind and Romo has to run the hurry up offense. When in hurry up, Garrett and his idiotic play calling are neutralized.

    In all honestly, Garrett may make a decent head coach if that is all he does. He has been absolutely terrible wearing both the head coach and offensive coordinator hats at the same time. If he is retained next year, Jerry has to hire a real OC. Garrett needs to concentrate on motivating and disciplining the team.
  3. Undisputed

    Undisputed Well-Known Member

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    Best post in the thread. I've been saying this for ages. It seems like people have already written Jason Garrett's fairytale ending for him. It's absolutely incredible. I've never been a fan of JG. Nothing against the guy, but it's been clear to me that he has been learning on the job since he took the reins of our offense (which was already ranked top 5 under a combination of aged Bledsoe and Green Romo).
  4. CowboysFaninDC

    CowboysFaninDC Well-Known Member

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    inhereited crap?

    they have willis, bowman, smith, smith, brought in bunch of first round talent at CB. they have invested heavily in their OL with first and second round picks (3 first and 2 second over the past 6 years). had an all pro RB. top 10 WR, and TE and had one of the best rushing games in the league prior to harbaugh. their previous coach sucked, so lets call it what it was. lets not make up things to justify our view.
  5. CowboyGil

    CowboyGil Well-Known Member

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    Hos, you are an island of reality in an ocean of you know what!!
  6. DenCWBY

    DenCWBY Well-Known Member

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    Good point. Some apples and some oranges. Prev coach sucked so brought in a coach to recognize and create a workable environment and effective scheme that fit the talents of those players which obviously raised their level of play. More importantly restructured their setting to have team success. Some of those top picks were with the team for several years and played subpar of enough to get by. Why? Perhaps it was their scheme? Lack of motivation? Poor team environment? They just needed a kick in the pants? We're in the habit of losing?
    Good coaches take good and/or bad talent and make them better or cut them lose. I see where JG cut some loose (BJames/Gurode) but he's not helping the talent we have get better. In fact many (Romo/Austin/Jones/T Smith) all offensive starters are worse. Do you think Harb would wait all year for Ogletree to come around with Harris on the bench or F Jones to get in shape? I think he would either create a system which Ogletree and Co could thive (see ASmith, Crab), or cut them loose. I envision Harb as a very intense, vocal leader that players do not want to dissapoint. I don't see that with the DC. Not to say that there are successful coaches that do not yell and scream but I think all succesful coaches carry a certain sence of leadership and respect which I do not see in JG.
  7. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    Good luck trying to inject facts into any conversation about Garrett.
  8. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    Thanks. The waters are rising.

  9. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    What a joke!

    Nice how you simply put 'lists five things' instead, of, ya know, actually listing any.

    And 'option b' is the only option that actually matters.

    But leave it to the 'great pretenders' to somehow try to marginalize actual wins and losses as a measure of success!

    This proves my point clearly.

    People see what they choose to see over reality.

    They picture Garrett as a great coach when reality says he's the definition of mediocre.
  10. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    And let me guess. You don't, right? :lmao2:
  11. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Ultimately, you answer your own question.

    Whether any of us love or hate Garrett he si gonna be here if Jerry wants him.
    Why a fan feels the way they do is the most useless point of reference ever.

    We are fan, which y definition means we forgo reason and allow passion and emotion to override logic.

    As to making logical arguments that can go two ways. I could construct a solid debate argument for or against Garrett.

    He is young, well-educated and a football lifer. There are certainly coaches who have had Hall of Fame careers start far worse than his current .500 career record. None of the least would be the guy we all wanted him to be: Tom Landry.

    All that said, my rebuttal argument would focus on his lack of offensive growth, penalties (especially on that side of the ball) and lack of clock mgmt skill.

    When my next turn came as Garrett backer I'd argue clock mgmt like for the Saints just last night. Yes they are missing Payton but did have Drew Brees.

    and on and on.

    Good debates can be had but it is just a mental exercise.

    Jerry's opinion is what really matters.
  12. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    I see 8-8 in 2011 and 5-6 in 2012.

    Tangible evidence.

    I see an offense ranked in the bottom half of the league (18th in points scored).

    Tangible evidence.

    A running game ranking dead last in the entire league.

    More tangible evidence.

    Not the wishful thinking of folks dreaming he's the next Tom Landry.

    Unlike others, I can backup and substantiate my position.

    The dreamers provide zero tangible evidence to support their hopes and dreams.

    But have at it.

    Maybe it's time for another smilie?
  13. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    I would be perfectly fine if we fired Garrett today, this second.

    All that said, I am more than willing to accept your challenge.

    5 things:
    1. Better drafting. Young guys with NFL talent and good attitudes are now prevalent.

    2. No mutinies that we saw under Wade.

    3. Better second half adjustments.

    4. No arrests or off field nonsense aside from Dez Bryant's momma episode.

    5. Division wins in NY and Philly on the road. Could win in Wash and sweep road series in division for first time in a very long time.
  14. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    No one suggested there aren't arguments to be made against Garrett.
    Only the small-minded believe everything is all 1 way. That is almost always incorrect and leads to a drought in overall thinking.

    Challenging the status quo of what appears to be accepted as fact is the only way to really learn anything new once you reach maturity.
  15. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I put my responses in bold above.
  16. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    And you're saying what in all of this?

    We should 'let go of the reality of what we see' and 'embrace the unseen'?

    I'm not dealing in absolutes. I don't think Garrett is 'absolutely terrible'.

    I just think he's in over his head and it's having a detrimental effect on this team.

    And all the while, the careers of franchise players like Romo, Witten, and Ware are being wasted.

    I don't think they should be sacrificed while this guy learns on the job and hopefully becomes what everyone pictures in their heads.
  17. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    yeah, but ONE DAY (several years from now) he MIGHT become an NFL caliber head coach

    isnt that enough?
  18. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Those are fair points.
    I am saying there are also fair points on the other side.

    Things like:
    We could have Lombardi himself here but it wouldn't guarantee we win a title. The very best coaches of all time have far more seasons of not winning Super Bowls than they do of winning them. Hiring BP didn't guarantee us even a single playoff win, much less a SB.
    It takes more than 1 year to create a SB winning team.

    Jimmy Johnson's offenses ranked 27th his first two seasons here. He was considerably under .500. He almost saw Troy Aikman die in Philly. But he continued building that team and they were hoisting trophies in his 4th/5th year.

    If you don't have SB winning talent in place perhaps you are in a unique position to allow a coach to develop on the job. Jimmy was given time to find the right offense around Troy, Emmitt, Irvin. He came in as a dumb college coach with *vanilla schemes (Lawrence Taylor).

    All that said, I would not have fired Wade. I would have fired JG as OC and rebuilt the defense with more talent. I am just saying there are arguments that make perfect logical sense both way. It will ultimately come down to perspective and opinion.
  19. CowboysFaninDC

    CowboysFaninDC Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying garrett is great, but he has had a lot less to work with. give him a better OL and see how it works. when has had decent play from the OL, he has shown he can produce a top 10 offense. right now, this team is a mish mush of talent and doesn't fit in.

    you can't make filet mignon out of a pile of shiet.

    I also not dismissing harbuagh. he is a good coach, he had experience and he showed it and learned a lot in college. but the cupboard wasn't empty when he got there. they already had a top 10 rushing game. they already had a very good defense. he injected a little more into it and yes, he did change the scheme. not completely overhaul, but change. he didn't need to create and put in a whole new system.

    but right now, I can't think of any scheme that our offense could do, with this OL. the bears are in a similar boat. cutler saves their arses a lot. but they have a top 5 defense that scores a lot, so they seem to be a better team. we don't have that benefit. our defense gives up points by the ton and the handicapped offense is always playing from behind.

    people point to the second half of games and how much success we have had. its because we play from behind, sometimes way behind and the other team plays a bit of prevent defense, specially in the 4th quarter. so we pile up yards.

    also harbuagh doesn't have to deal with Jerry Jones. that alone equals one or two more losses per year.
  20. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    Got it. So you don't measure intangibles because they don't fit into your agenda.

    You want a brand new head coach with no prior experience to take a bad team to the Super Bowl within 2 years. You can live in denial all you want but the team Garrett inherited compared to what we have now is completely different. We are a MUCH better team. Over the next year or two we will develop into a scary team for any opponent to face. We have a few more places that need to be addressed. I understand you're disappointed since change doesn't happen at the speed of light....because that's a perfectly realistic expectation especially for you non-dreamers.

    What's funny is how not a single person was complaining about Garrett during the offseason. I also find it funny that some of you have the audacity to sit there and call the people who want Garrett "dreamers." Apparently you were doing the dreaming. Apparently you guys didn't look at the roster the past two and a half years and thought that a brand new HC with no HCing experience would drastically change things in 2.5 years. And we're the dreamers :laugh2: :laugh2:

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