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Those for JGarrett in 2013

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by DenCWBY, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    I don't measure intangibles because they're just that - intangible.

    tangible: real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary

    Again, easy to say, impossible to back up. No tangible evidence suggests that this team is any better than what he inherited. In fact, the facts state that it's worse.

    Again, with the smilies.

    I guess when reality fails you and you've got nothing left, they somehow help to cover up the obvious deficiencies in your argument?

    Maybe intelligent debate just isn't your strong suit?
  2. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    We can compare the talent each inherited if it would help you to see the apples and oranges comparison you're making here. Johnson inherited what was essentially a bare cupboard of NFL talent. Garrett inherited a team littered with multiple Pro Bowl players.

    That's if you don't consider Romo, Ware, Wittne and several others SB winning talent.

    I think it would be an easier taks to replace an inexperienced, struggling coach rather than a franchise QB, TE, and DE.

    I think Wade was just as bad a hire myself. A coordinator-level talent that Jones had to make a head coach to get.

    If we could have hired a real head coach and Phillips as coordinator, I think we would have been much better off.

    I see one side of this 'argument' with tangible evidence to support it and another side lacking that evidence.
  3. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    I hate smilies as much as you. At least their overuse and especially the childish, smart butt use. It comes across oft-times as snooty and effeminate. But, it is also about all the legal mockery that can be done on the forums so is probably here to stay.

    All that said the use of the word tangible to argue what intangible means is 100% cheating in a logical debate. As is trying to define the word beyond it's context. We are in a football discussion and 'intangibles' are a very real and common part of the vocabulary. They are also very much desired in players, coaches and teams. It does not at all mean 'doesn't exist'. It simply means attributes not measured. A player who is a good leader is a very real thing but it isn't a statistic. A player who is 15 minutes early to every meeting is a great asset but it isn't measured or presented to any of us. So it would be referred to in a football sense as intangible.

    My goal on the forums for as long as they remain this extreme will be to continue to steer the conversation to the middle. Like in our political climate people have jumped the shark to utter ridiculous extremes far too often.
  4. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    So that's what intangible means. Thanks!

    Just curious, since we are talking about players and not the team here, what facts are you referring to, since you only deal in that which is tangible.

    No no, I'm just laughing at you. They're pretty straightforward.

    You got me. This is such an "intelligent" debate.
  5. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    Probably right about that.

    But to me it's often used by the guy who has run out of ideas and anything constructive to say. They then hit the smilie 'panic button' and hope that nobody notices that they're in over their heads.

    A 'good leader' doesn't mean anything without tangible results either. All the 'intangibles' in the world are meaningless unless they contribute to tangible results.

    I have never heard the words 'intangibles' used more often on any player than Tim Tebow. How are all of those intangibles working out for him and the Jets? Ultimately, it's about results. Everything else is just noise.

    Agree or disagree, I enjoy intelliegent, spirited debate.

    You and I have agreed and disagreed many times, but you always put great efforts into supporting whatever side of the argument you come down on.

    I appreciate that.
  6. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    I know personally, that's all I'm asking for. There is no such thing as an intelligent debate when there is no attempt to embrace and understand the opposing viewpoint. That doesn't exist here. I don't mind the occasional insult and mockery, that's fair game with me. But when it's constant and nothing of substance is offered then I provide the same thing that has been provided to me. If you're going to act like a know it all and belittle those with opposing opinions, I will most likely do the same thing back for a little while. Hence my smiles and laughing. It's actually kind of fun. I wish I had done it earlier when trolls would speak to me.
  7. da_whiz_kid

    da_whiz_kid Active Member

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    The funny thing is we'll be having these same conversationw about whoever our head coach is two years from now when we don't win a playoff game in the two years he's been here. And two years after that, two years after that, 2 years after that, 2 years after that... Tony Romo will be 45 when he wins his first Super Bowl. lol

    Not agreeing or disagreeing, just saying... lol
  8. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    We can debate all those points intelligently.

    1. JJ talent vs JG talent: JJ went winless. So he certainly inherited less talent and performed far worse with the inherited talent. He was able to trade one of the most coveted players in NFL history for a cupboard of draft picks. the 1992/93 Cowboys are CERTAINLY FAR BETTER than any team Garrett has coached in any fashion. Garrett inherited an older, aging roster, lesser draft picks and a SALARY CAP.

    2. A hall of fame TE has never won a Super Bowl. Unless Tony Gonzales or Jason Witten get one soon it may another 10-12 years before a HoF TE has also won a SB.

    3. TR is not a HoF caliber QB. He is probably Ring of Honor worthy but at this point he isn't getting in the Hall of Fame. He is generally considered a top 10 QB in the NFL but not a top 5 player.

    4. Lots of NFL teams have 1 HoF player and do not win SBs. It takes a solid roster, not just one guy.

    5. The runner up to Wade was Norv. He is at least as bad a HC as Wade imho. The other hot property was Singletary or Ron Rivera. Both guys who have failed or basically failed as HC now. Just because what we did did not work did not mean there were better known or reasonable options at the time.

    6. The other two teams who wanted JG were Baltimore and Atlanta. Both franchises who have become quite good. They added a ton of talent since hiring those coaches however.
  9. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but arguing for the sake of arguing isn't an intelligent and spirited debate. It's arguing and wasting precious time, that's it.
  10. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    Well what you're "just saying" is very accurate.
  11. alsmith

    alsmith Member

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    D A post,
  12. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you choose to see things that way.
  13. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Only going to disagree about the intangible part.

    If you are a good leader, you are a good leader. It doesn't mean everything turns to sunshine around you. While you can often see some tangible evidence it is often of questionable causality. That's why it is an intangible in the first place.

    Players who practice hard perform better. A pretty basic idiom but hard to truly validate with evidence over time. And in fact in some cases players may play better without any practice at all but just rest. Lots of variables but a very solid idiom overall.

    Tim Tebow's intangibles seemed to work wonders in Florida. But his overall lack of use and the fact he is splitting a fan base could cause a guy with positive intangibles to have a negative impact when in the wrong situation.

    Emmitt had great intangibles here until we were sorry and he was calling his teammates poo.

    I get drawn offsides into extremes as well. It is a lazier way to debate and requires less thought or work. So it happens to all of us and becomes the norm on the forums. I am going to try and be a value add by steering things back toward the middle where possible.
  14. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    No problem. seems obvious you needed the help.


    Actually, we're talking about coaches here - specifically Jason Garrett.


    What's more straightforward is that you've got nothing constructive to add to the conversation and are in over your head.

    Let the adults talk and quit embarrassing yourself any further.

    If you don't think so, don't post here. Plenty of more topics worthy of you and your obvious insights..
  15. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    And I go back to this being a results business. For me, you can have any and all of the rest of it, at the end of the day it's about doing it, not saying it.

    Two years into 'the process' and I can't tangible evidence (there it is again!) where any of what's being said is actually causing improvement and by extension - wins.

    It's reached the point where it's just noise for me. Noise, from the owner/GM, noise from the coaches, and noise from the players trying to say the right things.

    I'll cop to letting my passions get the best of me sometimes and I do work to maintain a more even stance, but not without substantial effort.

    Good luck in your efforts!
  16. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Here's a hypothetical for you, and I know hypotheticals have limitations. What would you be saying about tangible evidence if you were a Saints fan at the end of Sean Payton's third season in New Orleans?
  17. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    Wait, I thought this was supposed to be an "intelligent" debate. You can't even follow along. We weren't talking about Jason Garrett. We were talking about the quality of players that have been brought in compared to the quality of players now. You said the facts state the opposite. I'm asking what player facts state this?

    I hate to say it but you're not making this look like a very intelligent debate. :confused:


    Actually, what I said was quite constructive. I mean maybe it was too much for you to handle which is why of all that was said you only focused on the two little smiles at the end. I don't know though.

    Again, and we're the dreamers.
  18. 17yearsandcounting

    17yearsandcounting Benched

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    An NFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME APPEARANCE?
  19. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    While I would not have been happy with his 8-8 record, I would have felt very good about the tremendous offense that my offensive-minded coach had built.

    I would hope that he could put together a capable defense to compliemtn that offense.

    He may not have had a great overall record, but he did have his offense working well.
  20. 17yearsandcounting

    17yearsandcounting Benched

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    He was still 25-23, a division, a first round bye, a playoff win, and an NFC Championship game appearance.

    Get crackin ginger!

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