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To Provoke War, Cheney Considered Proposal To Dress Up Navy Seals As Iranians And...

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by dacarmelking210, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. dacarmelking210

    dacarmelking210 New Member

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    To Provoke War, Cheney Considered Proposal To Dress Up Navy Seals As Iranians And Shoot At Them

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=37d_1217534537

    July 31, 2008 Speaking at the Campus Progress journalism conference earlier this month, Seymour Hersh — a Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist for The New Yorker — revealed that Bush administration officials held a meeting recently in the Vice President’s office to discuss ways to provoke a war with Iran.

    In Hersh’s most recent article, he reports that this meeting occurred in the wake of the overblown incident in the Strait of Hormuz, when a U.S. carrier almost shot at a few small Iranian speedboats. The “meeting took place in the Vice-President’s office. ‘The subject was how to create a casus belli between Tehran and Washington,’” according to one of Hersh’s sources.

    During the journalism conference event, I asked Hersh specifically about this meeting and if he could elaborate on what occurred. Hersh explained that, during the meeting in Cheney’s office, an idea was considered to dress up Navy Seals as Iranians, put them on fake Iranian speedboats, and shoot at them. This idea, intended to provoke an Iran war, was ultimately rejected:

    HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don’t we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.

    Might cost some lives. And it was rejected because you can’t have Americans killing Americans. That’s the kind of — that’s the level of stuff we’re talking about. Provocation. But that was rejected.

    Watch it:


    Hersh argued that one of the things the Bush administration learned during the encounter in the Strait of Hormuz was that, “if you get the right incident, the American public will support” it.

    “Look, is it high school? Yeah,” Hersh said. “Are we playing high school with you know 5,000 nuclear warheads in our arsenal? Yeah we are. We’re playing, you know, who’s the first guy to run off the highway with us and Iran.”

    Transcript:

    HERSH: There was a meeting. Among the items considered and rejected — which is why the New Yorker did not publish it, on grounds that it wasn’t accepted — one of the items was why not…

    There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don’t we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up. Might cost some lives.




    And it was rejected because you can’t have Americans killing Americans. That’s the kind of — that’s the level of stuff we’re talking about. Provocation. But that was rejected.

    So I can understand the argument for not writing something that was rejected — uh maybe. My attitude always towards editors is they’re mice training to be rats.

    But the point is jejune, if you know what that means. Silly? Maybe. But potentially very lethal. Because one of the things they learned in the incident was the American public, if you get the right incident, the American public will support bang-bang-kiss-kiss. You know, we’re into it.

    …What happened in the Gulf was, in the Straits, in early January, the President was just about to go to the Middle East for a visit. So that was one reason they wanted to gin it up. Get it going.

    Look, is it high school? Yeah. Are we playing high school with you know 5,000 nuclear warheads in our arsenal? Yeah we are. We’re playing, you know, who’s the first guy to run off the highway with us and Iran.

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  2. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    Hersh is losing his mind.
  3. bbgun

    bbgun Benched

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    No one's been more wrong more often. Gotta love "Liveleak" as a source, too.
  4. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Is this before or after Bush and Cheney planned and carried out 9/11?


    This is what this left wing nut thinks about our Military.

    Hersh offered the assessment that "there has never been an [American] army as violent and murderous as our army has been in Iraq.”
  5. ThaBigP

    ThaBigP New Member

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    Well, if one defines "violent" as shooting particular people, and "murderous" as killing them with the shot (which he apparently would), sounds like he's saying our military is doing its job, though I'm sure that's not what he'd want someone to infer from his quote. Any military's real purpose is to kill people and break things when such dirty business is needed.

    And it is such a head-scratcher that some people honestly believe that this or any administration would seriously consider setting up a scenario for US forces to engage with other US forces in order to give the appearance of an international incident. In this scenario, would Hersh like to expain how this would come about? Who is going to order Navy Seals to get into glorified fishing boats and attempt a mock assault on a US cruiser? And for this to work, the crew of the cruiser cannot know this is a mock "assault", so they will return live fire (it needs to look real enough to fool the world, and the cruiser is full of sailors and marines, not actors). This engagement would also most likely kill the Seals due to the disparity in ships and firepower. It would be a suicide mission, and you couldn't hide that fact from the Seals (after all, they'd clearly be able to identify the ship they were harassing or assaulting on these crazy orders). Some people just don't honestly think their hypothesis through.
  6. ThaBigP

    ThaBigP New Member

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    One other point - with the Iranians already harassing shipping in the strait, racing at break-neck speed to develop nuclear weapons, and most of the world sitting on pins and needles waiting for Israel and/or the US to carry the water by doing the "dirty work" (yet again), why would anybody need to invent some fictitious pretext for engaging in hostilities? A fictitious pretext that most likely would be discovered and made public, undermining any legitimate pretext that such a conflict could have been waged upon?

    Would our government prefer, for public relations/propaganda purposes, that the Iranians start the real shooting? Sure. Salesmanship is always part of statesmanship, which I've always sort of bristled at. To me, doing the right thing is *always* doing the right thing regardless of poll results or public (or world) opinion. If something is not inherently *right* without public support, how does merely adding majority opinion behind it suddenly make it *right*? That's poll-taking and attempting to work some political popularity contest, not true leadership.
  7. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    I pray that no one is that big of a moron to actually believe this, but I suppose there will be those who have had lobotomies who will buy into this. I truely hope they can't figure out a ballot. :bang2:
  8. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    the chads will be hanging i'm sure.
  9. hairic

    hairic Well-Known Member

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  10. dacarmelking210

    dacarmelking210 New Member

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    Has the Gulf of Tonkin slipped your mind?

    While I am not sure whether this entire episoide happened EXACTLY as how Hersh portrays it, it is certainly possible, especially with the Bush administration in office.

    These are the same people who knowingly distorted facts about Iraq's WMDs, to gain public support for the invasion. That's a FACT that you cannot ignore. If they did something shady like that once, they are more than capable of doing something similar this time around.
  11. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    and the admin before bush that "distorted" the facts too - why do we gloss over those?
  12. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Once again I say...

    :bang2:
  13. ThaBigP

    ThaBigP New Member

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    You're making a tenuous connection. The Gulf of Tonkin incident is widely blieved today to be a case of administration blowing what was on odd but rather minor incident into a drumbeat for war. A similar idea about this administration is being batted about by many, that a pile of inconclusive evidence had been inflated in significance in order to gain support for a war. But the scenario purported in the artilce is horrifyingly different - that an administration would *seriously consider* ordering US forces to attack other US forces, along with the casualties that would bring, in an effort to gain support for attacking a nation that already has broad world-wide support for attacking if the need arises.
  14. dacarmelking210

    dacarmelking210 New Member

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    Ohh, I certainly don't gloss over the Clinton blunders, either. Not a big fan of Clinton's policies, besides his economic policies (most prosperous 8 years our nation experienced in quite some time..how can I complain?). His blunders in not tracking down Bin Laden, randomly bombing Iraq w/o doing anything with it (i.e. without "solving" the issue in the process), not doing more to solve the Israeli/Palestinian crisis, etc are well noted in my mind..don't worry.
  15. dacarmelking210

    dacarmelking210 New Member

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    What's the difference between setting up your own troops to die by having them attack each other and setting them up to die by forcing them to attack a country in a war perpetuated under false pretenses? Oh, I forgot, we invaded Iraq, while conveniently securing billion of dollars in oil contracts for American Oil companies at the same time, to 'free' Iraq and protect us from the man who served as a 'direct threat' to the United States..even though he had no relationship with any of the groups who were able to threaten the US in any way. :rolleyes:
  16. bbgun

    bbgun Benched

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    I hate amateur historians. Are you denying that sailors on the Turner Joy believed they were under attack? Given that the Maddox most certainly had been attacked shortly before, it was easy to believe that both destroyers had been attacked again.

    Bi-partisan commissions have reached the opposite conclusion: the case for war was not "sexed up." Members of Congress were not "duped." They voted for war based on the exact same intelligence at W's disposal. I'm sorry that the war wasn't waged to your satisfaction, but that really has nothing to do with the present.
  17. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    The left-wing nutjobs sure are going to miss Cheney. I'll bet they shed a lot of tears as Cheney rides off into the sunset smiling.
  18. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    I love it. Everything I have said about the liberal media and the idiot far left is coming true. Keep it coming!!!
  19. CanadianCowboysFan

    CanadianCowboysFan Lightning Rod

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    If it were true, it would be the Marco Polo Bridge, Gulf of Tonkin, Mukden and Germany/Poland in 1939 all rolled into one.

    As we all know from 2003, Cheney and VP Bush don't need to shoot at Americans to get a pretence to start a war, they just start one.
  20. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    The sailors there believed they were under attack. The politicians that wanted the resolution knew that it was pretty specious.

    And the intelligence relied upon pre Iraq invasion was often pipelined and cherry picked for the purpose. And the since the war and its aftermath was planned with all the care and consideration of a pick up basketball game, you can certainly say it did not meet with my satisfaction.

    Actually, pick up basketball games are usually better done, as there is often some understanding about who gets the beer and where the party is afterwards.

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