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Tuitt vs Hageman

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by xwalker, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I think Stephon Tuitt might be underrated.

    He played in a 3-4 where his job was play the run first and then rush the QB. In the nickel he would often line up as a DE in a 4 man line. On the rare occasions where he lined up as a DT in a 4 man front on passing downs, he looked really good, especially in 2012.

    In 2013 he had off season hernia surgery and appeared to be much heavier than he was in 2012.

    If you watch game footage of him, you won't like him unless you can find the few snaps in 2012 where he rushed the passer as a DT in a 4 man line.

    Tuitt didn't run at the combine but NFLDS estimates his forty to be in the same range as Hageman's.

    Tuitt definitely appears to be stronger against the run than Hageman.

    Stephon Tuitt 6-5, 304
    Notre Dame
    Bench: 31
    Arm Length: 34-3/4
    Hand Size: 10

    Ra'shede Hageman 6-6, 310
    Minnesota
    Bench: 32
    Arm Length: 34-1/4
    Hand Size: 10-1/2
  2. DuDa

    DuDa Well-Known Member

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    I like tuitt but he's a 1 on this team. I don't see the cowboys drafting him unless he falls to the 3rd. It's possible but I highly doubt that happens.
  3. CowboysLaw87

    CowboysLaw87 Active Member

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    It's interesting but I don't see Tuitt as having the same athletic upside as Hageman. His ceiling is lower IMO. I think Tuitt will make for a nice 3-4 DE or big base DE in a 4-3 that you bump inside on passing downs. My thought is that we have a pretty darn similar player in Tyrone Crawford. So a good player, but not necessarily one that adds a ton of value to our roster if we're talking a 1st or 2nd round pick.
    manster4ever likes this.
  4. KDM256

    KDM256 Active Member

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    If I had to choose between the two I would probably lean more so towards Tuitt. I haven't really seen both players play a lot in college so my knowledge is limited but the times I did see Tuitt play mostly in 2012, kid seem like a player for ND and could start on any team inthe SEC or college football for that matter IMO.
  5. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    depends on the system. I think each could be better at the right system then the other. For our purposes I like Tuit but can see Hageman as well.
  6. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

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    I have wondered if it was Tuitt that helped Nix look better or if it is Nix who helps make Tuitt look better.

    Notice i am not saying either are scrubs or that one is doing it all. Just that when you get two players that are ranked highly in a draft playing on the same line or group...sometimes one of the players helps make the other look better than they are.

    I see that a good deal with the Ohio State linebackers over the years. As a group they are great but normally one is a bit better than the others and at times even then not great.
    visionary likes this.
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think both of these guys are the real deal. I really like Tuitt.
  8. tm1119

    tm1119 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I think having a 330 lb monster next to you is always going to make you look better. Not to say Tuitt isn't talented, I just think it's harder to evaluate tape for a guy playing on Minnesota with a bunch of guys who will be working 9-5 next year. Hageman has so much to like, but the stats just didn't add up. Could be because of a mediocre motor, or just the fact that he was playing on a bad team with no help.
  9. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    That's what I thought initially, but after finding some of the limited snaps in 2012 where was all out pass rushing from a 3-tech DT position, he looks much different on those snaps. He looked like Jason Hatcher on those snaps.
  10. the_h0wey

    the_h0wey Well-Known Member

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    In my dream scenario Tuitt falls to us in the second. Hoping his injury scars teams off.
  11. neosapien23

    neosapien23 Well-Known Member

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    I really liked him coming out of the draft and thought he was going to be first rounder. I still do. He plays with a very high motor and unlike Hageman, he doesn't take plays off. I wouldn't mind a big trade down with Dallas taking Tuitt with their first round pick to play the 3 tech spot. I also wonder what part of the first round Hageman is going in? My dream scenario would be to trade down into the low end of the first round and pick up an extra 3rd rounder and draft Tuitt. If Hageman falls into the lower first round, which he might due to inconsistency, Dallas could trade that 3rd round pick along with their 2nd round pick to move back into the first and take Hageman. They could put Hageman at the 1 and Tuitt at the 3. Dallas would have two really big, tall, strong, and fast DTs for Marenelli and they could be something special playing next to each other. With their 3rd round pick they could take Will Clarke who is very similar to Kareem Martin. All of a sudden the Dline would be a very physically intimidating group.
  12. Fredd

    Fredd Well-Known Member

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    Love Tuitt....I can see SF taking him at the end of round #1 unless they trade up to us to get a WR
  13. Pessimist_cowboy

    Pessimist_cowboy Well-Known Member

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    both slow , unmotivated busts.
  14. tm1119

    tm1119 Well-Known Member

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    You've never seen Hageman play if you think he's slow
    unionjack8 likes this.
  15. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

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    Tuitt can be a Richard Seymour lite. Probably not as explosive but very very solid.
  16. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    and another village is looking for someone....
    unionjack8 likes this.
  17. CowboysLaw87

    CowboysLaw87 Active Member

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    I'll have to go back and watch from 2012. Considering how hard it seems to be to find an upper tier 3T, I can certainly be convinced...
  18. Macnalty

    Macnalty Well-Known Member

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    It would be a great problem if we had to choose between Tuitt and Hageman I would be happy with either one. I agree this year was not what he showed in 2012 other than that horrible alabama game where he and Nix both belonged on the asthma field.
  19. XxTDxX

    XxTDxX Active Member

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    I don't like either guy for this team.
  20. bodi

    bodi Active Member

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    Ra’Shede Hageman, Minnesota, #99, 6-6, 310 RS SR


    College Position: DT in 4-3


    Position on Cowboys: 1T or 3T DT


    2014 NFL Draft Projection Round: 1
    Arm Length: 33 3/4

    Ra’Shede Hageman might be best as a 3-4 DE, but he certainly offers some upside as a pass rushing DT. He is very long and athletic. He was recruited as a TE and led his high school basketball team to a championship. He reportedly has a 36 inch vertical and can 360 dunk. Hageman exhibits great strength, often pushing offensive linemen into the backfield. He uses his height to his advantage (8 PD and 2 blocked kicks in 2013) while maintaining decent pad level when required. While he “only” had 2 sacks in 2013, he had 6 sacks in 2012 and 11 TFL in 2013. He also has a great short-area burst. For example, against UNLV in 2013, the QB faked the zone read handoff to the RB, who Hageman hit, yet Hageman was able to react quickly and move on to the QB, tackling him shortly thereafter.

    Hageman is often described as “raw” but is a polished player in the run game. He needs to play with more consistent technique. Minnesota also subs him out frequently, which raises questions about his conditioning. This may also explain his “lack” of stats. NFL scouts will definitely investigate and check with the Minnesota coaching staff. Nevertheless, it’s odd that Minnesota doesn’t put its best player out on the field more often. Don’t get me wrong, Minnesota is a good program (8-4 regular season), but they don’t have the defensive line depth that typically accompanies schools that rotate defensive linemen frequently.
    Hageman would be a great fit for the Cowboys. If they draft Hageman in the 1st round, they could still draft a prototypical 3T in another round and then move Hageman to the 1T spot. If they don’t add another quality DT, then Hageman has enough athleticism to play the 3T. Not saying he's an ideal fit there, just that he'd be an asset in the short-term if needed.

    2013: 34 tackles, 2 sacks, 11 TFL, 8 PD, 1 QBH, 2 blk kicks, 1 INT
    2012: 35 tackles, 6 sacks, 1.5 TFL, 2 PD, 1 FF
    2011: 13 tackles, 2 sacks, 3.5 TFL, 1 FF

    Positives: Strength; Length; Athleticism; Short-area burst

    Negatives: Conditioning? (subbed out frequently); Could use more pass rushing moves; Inconsistent technique


    Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame, #7, 6-6, 312, JR
    College Position: 3-4 DE
    Position on Cowboys: 1T or 3T DT
    2014 Draft Projection Round: 1-2

    Tuitt’s best fit in the NFL is as a 3-4 DE. For a time, it looked like he could be a great strong side DE in a 4-3, but his weight has trended upwards. I really liked his 2012 season when he was 300, but he played at 312 in 2013, and it’s looking like he’s pushing 320 in the pre-draft process. Tuitt is not an ideal fit as a 3T in a 4-3 as he’s not a “quick-twitch” explosive player. He has enough athleticism and pass rushing skills, however, to make an impact. Like Hageman, Tuitt could play the 3T on run downs and then move inside (between the guard and center) on passing downs to make room for a quicker player. Of course, Tuitt could also be a full-time 1T DT.

    2013: 45 tackles, 7.5 TFL, 6 sacks, 13 QBH, 1 FF, 2 PD, 1 INT
    2012: 45 tackles, 11 TFL, 11 sacks, 9 QBH, 1 FF, 1 FR, 1 PD, 1 Blk kick 2011: 30 tackles, 3 TFL, 2 sacks, 5 QBH, 1 PD Positives: Hands; Motor; Bull rush, Swim and Rip moves; Length; Powerful arms; Pursuit

    Negatives: Better fit as DE in a 3-4; Not a speed rusher; Wouldn’t be an explosive 3 Technique DT; Some balance issues
    Corleone likes this.

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