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Valley Ranch is a Mess

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by HoustonFrog, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Complaining for no reason? How is that even possible unless the "plan" works to perfection every single time? Pretty sure the OL play from this season validated all of the complaining last offseason about not putting together a strong unit. Or was the plan to have a crappy OL?

    I'm also sure the "plan" was to employ Rob Ryan for 2 seasons which is why he was fired instead of being a free agent. Must have written those extra years into the contract just for the laughs.

    "Always having a plan" doesn't really mean anything when the plan is constantly changing because certain aspects of the plan have failed shortly after implementation. If the "author" of the plan has to constantly change certain aspects of the plan to where a short time after the initial plan was written it only moderately resembles the current version, is that any different than not having a plan at all and just going with whatever works best at the moment?

    What if that was the plan, to just see what works best at any given moment? Is that a plan? If it is, sounds pretty damn awful to me. If it's not, in what ways is it different from having a plan all written out and then using pallet after pallet of White Out to make corrections?

    Ya know, if you perpetually tell people to "sit tight and see what happens" there will never be a time at which they actually can complain.

    Dallas fires #1 and hires #2: "Just sit tight and see what happens".

    Dallas fires #2 and hires #3: "Just sit tight and see what happens".

    If at each firing you do nothing but "sit tight and see what happens" because it is all a part of the "plan", then nothing is ever NOT a part of the plan and there is never a point at which people can complain. If you accept everything as a part of the plan and the plan is free to and will change at any given time, when do people get to comment on how horrible the plan is?

    The answer is pretty much, "never", because waiting to see how it plays out means that you are waiting forever. Waiting for a book to be published that's stuck in a cycle of first revisions.
  2. SilverStarCowboy

    SilverStarCowboy The Actualist

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    Admittedly Jerry Jones would have been fired "by Jerruuhh himself" after his 16th year of less than Kansas City Chiefs level football, over 12 months ago.

    Beyond that he'd of retained a job about 2-4 years tops for any other NFL Franchise, without Jimmy Johnson. That would have been 12 -14 years ago he'd of been canned.
  3. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    There's nothing at all wrong with not liking a plan. In fact, I can say with some confidence that there is going to be plenty of complaining about this team's offseason coaching plan once people actually know what it is.

    Not all criticisms are valid, though. I'd think you'd probably agree with that. Invalid criticisms (eg: "JG takes too long to throw a challenge flag" or "We don't know what we're doing with our coaching changes because it didn't happen quickly") is complaining for no reason whatsoever.


    When have I ever perpetually told people to sit tight and see what happens? The two times I can remember making this case was 1, when we'd brought in the two FA OGs and were having fits about how bad the interior OL was going to be when we hadn't yet seen the OL starters play a single offensive snap. And 2, now, when we're in the middle of juggling the coaching staff and all the moves have not yet been announced. In both cases, I said there's a time and a place for criticizing. In the case of the OL, it turned out that Costa didn't even hardly play and that the bigger problem was really with the OTs, so, yeah, all of that complaining in advance turned out to, in fact, have been pretty much completely misguided. In the case of the current staff, I'd also submit that, when everything's said and done, people will have plenty to complain about in terms of who we hired. Sure, they have the right to complain about the process taking too long in the meantime. Or to delude themselves into thinking that the delay while games are still being played somehow means there actually isn't any plan at all. That sort of jumping the gun happens all the time and is not against the rules. It's just illogical, and it's unnecessarily dramatic.
  4. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    :laugh2:

    exactly

    you guys just complain
    it is all part of the grand master scheme
    wait for the process to play out

    been hearing this from blind followers for years now

    yeah, because the guys putting those schemes, plans, and processes together have done such a great job in the last 17 years


    hilarious
  5. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Context actually does matter in the case of this argument.

    And why do you care, anyway, visionary? You'll be among the first to complain about whatever the plan is when it actually becomes apparent, won't you? No matter what the plan actually is, there's still the '17 years of futility' thing to fall back on.
  6. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Seems to be the case. No matter what the Cowboys do at this point, it will not matter.

    For me I'm not interested in the past 17 years only concerned with this year and these staff members who are joining the team and the players we will pick up for this upcoming season and hope they can help make the differance.
  7. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    thread topic is
    "the current mess in valley ranch"
  8. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I know.

    And my argument disputed the validity of that claim. Because what looks like a 'mess' is really just part of the sum total of offseason moves which will end up being made.

    It's like looking at cake batter and calling the cake a mess. No kidding.
  9. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    That is pretty broad.

    You don't know whether its a mess or not. You are acting like its part of the normal process when the Team and Jerry have never had a normal process comparatively. So your argument doesn't dispute anything. There isn't an ending yet. I mean in the past we hired an O coordinator before a HC..not part of a normal process.

    Your analogy us making it seem like I think we are just going to go into the draft with an incomplete staff or an "unmade cake." My OP stated the opinion that Jerry was more concerned about people being uncomfortable vs process. After all we don't know what would have happened if we beat Washington. Because of this, many of the moves seem less planned in my book. Again, it's not like Jerry hasn't ever gone off script.
  10. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    Just another opinion stating similar thoughts regarding "seat of the pants" decisions.

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01/21/4564093/is-it-just-change-for-changes.html


  11. GimmeTheBall!

    GimmeTheBall! Junior College Transfer

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    Um, with all do respect, this is a rehash of what has already happened and what we all knew.

    The offseason is traditionally a time of change. I do not see the Cowboys in that much more of transition than many other teams.

    Real change will come when Jason hires a play-caller and we drop the deadwood and old guys, look for a QB in the draft and start rebuilding with a will.
  12. GimmeTheBall!

    GimmeTheBall! Junior College Transfer

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    Gotta love a CZ poster who does not take hisself so seriously that he looses all sense of humer.
  13. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. It's a message board about my favorite sports teams. I have opinions on them. Nobody should take this seriously or more than a fun hobby.:toast2:
  14. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    We should note that these were quotes from Mac Engel.

    While it's true that Jerry doesn't often work from a script, it's not like the guy doesn't have a process and doesn't try hard to get the decisions right. I believe it's silly to sit back and have only a partial view of what's going on and then to complain about what you think might or might not be happening. We just have to wait and see what the end result is going to be.

    I do think it's safe to say that Jerry talks to a lot of people to collect information and opinions before making a decision. And I think it's safe to say that one of JG's strengths is that he's deliberate and process oriented. For those reasons, if we end up making the wrong decisions, it probably won't be because the process wasn't thorough or that internal communication was bad.
  15. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Quite the opposite from the OP.
    I think things are falling into place real well.
    I feel better going into next season than I did this past one.

    We still need a good offseason for personnel upgrades. Oline still sucks.
    But factoring in the current personnel and the staff changes and responsibilites (see Garrett focus on HC only), I like things better now than 12 mos ago.

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