Waterboarding used 266 times on 2 suspects

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by ConcordCowboy, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    Waterboarding used 266 times on 2 suspects

    C.I.A. employed near-drowning technique against Al Qaeda prisoners

    Key terrorism prisoners Abu Zubaydah, left, and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, right, were waterboarded at least 266 times.

    C.I.A. interrogators used waterboarding, the near-drowning technique that top Obama administration officials have described as illegal torture, 266 times on two key prisoners from Al Qaeda, far more than had been previously reported.

    The C.I.A. officers used waterboarding at least 83 times in August 2002 against Abu Zubaydah, according to a 2005 Justice Department legal memorandum. Abu Zubaydah has been described as a Qaeda operative.

    A former C.I.A. officer, John Kiriakou, told ABC News and other news media organizations in 2007 that Abu Zubaydah had undergone waterboarding for only 35 seconds before agreeing to tell everything he knew.

    The 2005 memo also says that the C.I.A. used waterboarding 183 times in March 2003 against Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the self-described planner of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

    The New York Times reported in 2007 that Mr. Mohammed had been barraged more than 100 times with harsh interrogation methods, causing C.I.A. officers to worry that they might have crossed legal limits and to halt his questioning. But the precise number and the exact nature of the interrogation method was not previously known.

    Growing debate

    The release of the numbers is likely to become part of the debate about the morality and efficacy of interrogation methods that the Justice Department under the Bush administration declared legal even though the United States had historically treated them as torture.

    President Obama plans to visit C.I.A. headquarters Monday and make public remarks to employees, as well as meet privately with officials, an agency spokesman said Sunday night. It will be his first visit to the agency, whose use of harsh interrogation methods he often condemned during the presidential campaign and whose secret prisons he ordered closed on the second full day of his presidency.

    C.I.A. officials had opposed the release of the interrogation memo, dated May 30, 2005, which was one of four secret legal memos on interrogation that Mr. Obama ordered to be released last Thursday.

    Mr. Obama said C.I.A. officers who had used waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods with the approval of the Justice Department would not be prosecuted. He has repeatedly suggested that he opposes Congressional proposals for a “truth commission” to examine Bush administration counterterrorism programs, including interrogation and warrantless eavesdropping.

    The Senate Intelligence Committee has begun a yearlong, closed-door investigation of the C.I.A. interrogation program, in part to assess claims of Bush administration officials that brutal treatment, including slamming prisoners into walls, shackling them in standing positions for days and confining them in small boxes, was necessary to get information.

    The fact that waterboarding was repeated so many times may raise questions about its effectiveness, as well as about assertions by Bush administration officials that their methods were used under strict guidelines.

    A footnote to another 2005 Justice Department memo released Thursday said waterboarding was used both more frequently and with a greater volume of water than the C.I.A. rules permitted.

    Bloggers help uncover info

    The new information on the number of waterboarding episodes came out over the weekend when a number of bloggers, including Marcy Wheeler of the blog emptywheel, discovered it in the May 30, 2005, memo.

    The sentences in the memo containing that information appear to have been redacted from some copies but are visible in others. Initial news reports about the memos in The New York Times and other publications did not include the numbers.

    Michael V. Hayden, director of the C.I.A. for the last two years of the Bush administration, would not comment when asked on the program “Fox News Sunday” if Mr. Mohammed had been waterboarded 183 times. He said he believed that that information was still classified.

    A C.I.A. spokesman, reached Sunday night, also would not comment on the new information.

    Mr. Hayden said he had opposed the release of the memos, even though President Obama has said the techniques will never be used again, because they would tell Al Qaeda “the outer limits that any American would ever go in terms of interrogating an Al Qaeda terrorist.”

    He also disputed an article in The New York Times on Saturday that said Abu Zubaydah had revealed nothing new after being waterboarded, saying that he believed that after unspecified “techniques” were used, Abu Zubaydah revealed information that led to the capture of another terrorist suspect, Ramzi Binalshibh.

    The Times article, based on information from former intelligence officers who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Abu Zubaydah had revealed a great deal of information before harsh methods were used and after his captors stripped him of clothes, kept him in a cold cell and kept him awake at night. The article said interrogators at the secret prison in Thailand believed he had given up all the information he had, but officials at headquarters ordered them to use waterboarding.

    He revealed no new information after being waterboarded, the article said, a conclusion that appears to be supported by a footnote to a 2005 Justice Department memo saying the use of the harshest methods appeared to have been “unnecessary” in his case.

  2. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Nice work! Hope they got the information they needed. ;)
  3. Rogah

    Rogah Benched

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    This is very disappointing news. I would have hoped they waterboarded the architect of 9/11 much more frequently than those numbers suggest.

    And yes, I am being serious.
  4. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    It a good thing we used the water boarding. Who knows how many lives would have been needlessly destroyed in LA without it. In fact it was successful in breaking up elements of AL Qaeda and several terror plots. Kudos to the CIA.
  5. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    After the 150th time, they should have just plain drowned the s.o.b.

    And yes, I am being serious too.
  6. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping the boat or plane used to transfer the gitmo trash to our shores has a mysterious accident. Maybe Obama should consult with Bill Clinton on the game plan.
  7. Rogah

    Rogah Benched

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    I wouldn't lose any sleep if that happened. Either that or just announce that they are going to grant him his official release into the streets of New York City and let us know exactly when and where. He'd be unconscious within 10 seconds and dead within 15.
  8. DaBoys4Life

    DaBoys4Life Benched

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    I feel the same no need to play nice with terrorist.
  9. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

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    If waterboarding is SO terrible how in the world did they survive? hundreds of times SUPPOSEDLY.
  10. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we should have cut of their heads and video taped it for their loved ones.................after the water boarding.
  11. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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  12. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying its not?

    And what are you saying isn't bad?

    The idea of it or the experience?
  13. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    I agree. Should have been much more. Should have been used for recreation for the gaurds at Gitmo. Give them something fun to do on Friday nights.
  14. iceberg

    iceberg well at least we're not the browns Zone Supporter

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    if you have to use a form of "torture" 133 times per person, i'd have to say it's not a very effective torture.
  15. DaBoys4Life

    DaBoys4Life Benched

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    Unless they did it within the span on 10 minutes.....
  16. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    Personally if I was a terrorist I would take torture from the USA because I am fairly sure I will not be killed in torture. This gov't doesn't have the stomach to deal with terrorists they way they need to be dealt with. I mean torture is more pyschological then physical the person being tortured has to believ in their heart and mind that his/her captors will cross the line and the USA has shown it will not.
  17. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Or very deadly.
  18. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    Shoulda gone "Jack Bauer" on their arses.

  19. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    If they had anything to do with 9/11...and I don't know for sure so I won't speculate...but if they did they deserve every "torture" they get. Nearly drowning can't be nearly as bad as being burned or crushed to death, or being pushed out of a window hundreds of stories high b/c people don't have enough room to breathe. I feel no sympathy for these guys.
  20. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Get ready for the if we do that we are no better than them. :laugh1:

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