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What A Complete Disaster

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by CoachParcells, May 5, 2004.

  1. CoachParcells

    CoachParcells Benched

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    Unbelievable...

    Since January, the Pentagon has sat (most likely tried to hide) internal investigations of Iraqi POW abuse, torture, rape and murder. Presently, there is no less than 20 separate investigations taking place Army Has 20 Open Iraqi Prisoner Probes
  2. Mavs Man

    Mavs Man All outta bubble gum

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    No, what's unbelievable is that in this country the soldiers who committed these terrible acts will be punished, while similar atrocities (in much higher numbers) performed by the North Vietnamese armies in the Vietnam War and Baathists under Saddam were rewarded.

    What's unbelievable is that when citizens in this country first learned of this they were outraged and ashamed, while citizens of other nations celebrated and danced in the streets upon hearing news of 9/11.

    So, you're saying that twenty cases out of the over one half million troops who have been stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan the past two years is representative of our operation as a whole? As for the cover up . . . what cover up? The investigations have been going on for months before the story broke. Are you suggesting the U.S. military should broadcast to the world every time one of its soldiers screws up?

    It's easy to sit on the sidelines and Monday Morning Quarterback current affairs. I don't mean you have to be a homer, but your endless America bashing is pretty annoying. If you want to paint America as a bad guy all the time, then I suggest you be prepared to hand out a lot of black hats to countries around the globe before you get to us.
  3. BulletBob

    BulletBob The Godfather

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    No, No - he's probably right, Mavs. If we'd have had a much stronger commander-in-chief like John *** Kerry, this never would have happened! :rolleyes:
  4. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    This has nothing to do with who is or is not in office.

    Also just because another country or countries did this type of stuff does not mean it is ok for our country to do that type of stuff.

    Hey I served and I know this much....those people know better then to do that type of stuff....and furthermore the stupidity of them actually posing in front of this stuff with smiles on their faces while taking pictures of it.

    So wrong is wrong, I do not care what other countries have done...and this comes from a person that served and is a strong supporter of the troops...but you will always find some bad apples that ruin the image of the good soldiers out there.

    I would also bet money that there is some CIA or MI people behind some of these actions...no I am not a conspiracy nut...but I still would bet money on them being behind this whole thing.

    Sorry that is my opinion and to think of it in terms of other countries did it so we should do it, only lower our troops to the levels of other countries.
  5. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    This is a complete disaster.

    No WMDs
    No Al Quada links

    Yet the torture chambers still exist.......
  6. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    Mossad and hired mercenaries are also behind this.

    It still looks real bad. In Great Britain the front page story was "The photgraphs that lost the war". Kind of hard to disagree with that.
  7. BulletBob

    BulletBob The Godfather

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    You are correct, sir. My post was not intended to excuse the actions of these misguided souls. Just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
  8. BulletBob

    BulletBob The Godfather

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    First of all, whether communicated or not, neither of your criteria were the primary reason we went to war with Iraq.

    The problem is that the Bush administration didn't have the balls to admit that we were going in to set up a beach-head of democracy, right in the middle of the sh**storm, and in the process eliminate an evil dictator who had a history with WMDs and destabilizing the region. It's that simple, and we should have been more forthcoming.

    Secondly, your closing salvo is completely misguided, unless I've misinterpreted your implication. You seem to imply that the recent actions of a few sick individuals somehow equate (on the same scale, since you make no distinction) to the horror that went on in the torture chambers under Sadaam's iron fist. You know better than that, Eric.
  9. BulletBob

    BulletBob The Godfather

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    I completely disagree with that .....


    and it wasn't hard at all. :rolleyes:
  10. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    Yes we should of been more forthecoming because I wouldn't of supported this war to setup a "beach-head of democracy". The fact is we justified this war because they were not honoring the cease-fire agreement or alowing inspectors unfettered access to do inspections.

    In order for democracy to work a majority of people must want it. That isn't the case here. Obviously we need to finish what we started to try to prevent a bloody civil war from occuring. I'm starting to believe that no matter what we do, that very thing is inevitable.

    Actually I don't know better. It is entirely possible that the only way Iraq can exist as one nation is to rule it with an iron fist...Which is what we are doing right now. Some of that I can understand. We set a curfew and give standing orders to fire on anybody that violates the curfew. We shutdown newspapers and other media outlets that are inciting a riot. I can handle this, as they are done to preserve the safety of our troops, but it is still an Iron Fist.

    Will this be the event that finally wakes people up to why we shouldn't be the worlds police? Man I hope so. To claim we are safer due to this war is complete nonsense and if you can be honest with me and yourself you would admit it. Those WMD's still do exist, likely in Syria or some other place that hates us equally. Now we have provided fuel for several more generations of men and women to despise us.

    I'm ashamed of my country, the media, the president, and mostly of myself for thinking this war could actually do some good. It can't, we lost. The next leader of Iraq will not be any better then the last one.
  11. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    Yes but you actually believe a democracy can exist where it is not wanted. :rolleyes:

    It can't. So the only thing we could win is being safer. And now we can't be safer. Those photographs lost the war.
  12. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    Gee...I could see you being ashamed of the media...hell I have been ashamed of them for years because of the stuff they do...WAY before any of this stuff happened.
    I could see you being ashamed of the President...you do not care for him much anyways and even if you did you could still be ashamed of him.

    I could see you being ashamed of yourself...i will explain later in this post.

    However I can NOT see how you could be ashamed of your country.....and for even saying that I can see how you could be ashamed of yourself.
  13. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    You may be right on your first statement.

    However to say those photographs lost the war is nothing more then speculation on your or others parts.

    WOW...nice to see something as simple as a few stupid and sadistic soldiers with some pictures could lose a war.
    I think the next war we have we should send some people in undercover to take pictures like they are torturing american soldiers and let the world see them so we can win the war.

    :rolleyes:
  14. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    Everytime I see stupid crap like "beach head of democracy" my shame for country grows.

    I am ashamed of the arrogance the citizens of this country possess. I'm ashamed of the troops, the media, the president, congress, the voters, and myself. We are the country BrainPaint. I'm not ashamed of what our country is supposed to be, I'm ashamed of what it has become.
  15. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    If this was simply a war of conquest then pictures couldn't lose the war.

    This was never about conquest. This was about making our country safe from terrorism. Those pictures are going to haunt us for decades. Of course it is speculation but it is grounded in logical thinking.
  16. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    This is not one of those easy way out type of statements that many may use....but if you are so ashamed...then why not just find another place to live that may fall closer to what you believe?

    Sorry...I may be ashamed of some things that some PEOPLE do...but I am not ashamed of my country...I have had the luxury of seeing other countries and living in them...I know that althought things need fixing in my country...even in some of it's worse days...it is still better then some other countries in their best days.

    Too many men and women have died for me to be either comfortable enough or smirk enough to say I am ashamed of my country...while at the same time knowing those people that died gave me the right to say it if I did choose to say it.
  17. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    If pictures were the case then all of the middle eastern nations would have helped us invade Iraq because of the things that were found that was done to the people of Iraq.

    Pictures may damage an image of the US...but at the same time these people who are radical in religion and have a long filled hatred of the US are going to hate us no matter if those pictures happened or not. There are generations upon generations of people raised in that radical style of religion that will hate others no matter what has or will happen.

    Other countries who have been in war know that stuff like this happens, I am sure none condone it, are pleased by it or want it to happen again...but the simple fact is that this type of stuff does happen and has happened before....most countries are smart enough to know that.
  18. BulletBob

    BulletBob The Godfather

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    Eric, in all honesty, if you feel that strongly, you should find another country in which to live (as Brain suggested).

    Many of those you call arrogant are actually proud to live in this country (as naive as you probably think this statement is).

    Given your statements, I am actually surprised that a person of your logic can actually justify living here.

    Out of curiosity, why would you live in a country of whose evolution you are so ashamed?
  19. BulletBob

    BulletBob The Godfather

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    By the way, this and its preceding post were extremely well put, and spot on (IMHO).
  20. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    I don't deal in asinine discussions.

    Anybody that suggests this to me in person could find themselves struggling for oxygen.

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