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What a difference a HC makes, Chip Kelly

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Coy, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. NinePointOh

    NinePointOh Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you grasped what my point was at all, because I didn't imply anything about Denver and New Orleans being easy to beat. In fact, I specifically suggested they should be very successful most of the time, because they have two of the most efficient passers in the league. My point was that playing up-tempo doesn't automatically make you win games, even though it makes you score points. It's a good strategy if you are confident in your ability to be more efficient than your opponent in terms of points per possession (which Manning and Brees can do, Vick couldn't, and Foles apparently can), but if you've got an inefficient offense, then maximizing the number of possessions each team gets is going to make you fall behind, not build a lead. If playing aggressive and up-tempo was such a panacea for teams with lousy players, don't you think everyone would be doing it? I mean, it's not exactly a new concept.

    I'm not ready to call Foles an elite quarterback, and I don't have to. But there's little doubt that he played like a pretty good one over this short stretch against these particular defenses. Many elite QBs started that way, and many mediocre QB had elite-looking stretches that turned out to be short-lived. We'll see if he can sustain that level of success.

    You seem to want to put lots of words in my mouth that I don't believe and that don't follow logically from my argument at all. Should I get out of the way so you can keep arguing with your imagination?

    Foles had one of the best preseasons in the NFL as a rookie, and in the regular season he looked just fine outside of his second career start, against Washington's top 5 defense. I think Foles probably improved some after his rookie year and benefited from a weak schedule, and I don't think he's as good as his 119 QB rating suggests, but if he is, he certainly wouldn't be the first elite QB (if that's indeed what he turns out to be) who took more than two months to develop completely.

    Except when Andy Reid took a 2 and 14 team on the decline and took them to 11 and 5, right? Then results don't matter.

    Even if I trusted the opinions of a pack of Eagles fans, they would still be entirely irrelevant to the conversation. What the fans believe is inconsequential. I'm interested in what the evidence suggests.
    jobberone likes this.
  2. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    I guess we will just have to agree to disagree bro.......................Jerry has decided to keep Garrett so I guess its all a moot point now.
  3. CyberB0b

    CyberB0b Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    If I had the answers, I would be in the front office of an NFL franchise. I am just a guy who calls it like I see it. There are very recent examples of coaches coming in and changing the culture of the team and building a winner. Of course it would be naive to say they do that all by themselves. They need support from their bosses and from their subordinates. The organization needs to support them fully.

    This organization doesn't do that. Jerry will undermine his coaches through his actions and his words. No coach will ever be successful under this regime again. With that said, it doesn't absolve Garrett of his own mistakes. He didn't change the culture when he became the head coach, because he was very much a part of the disaster of a team in 2010. Garrett has been a terrible game manager since he became the HC. Even with reduced play calling duties, relegated to being a "walk around" head coach, he still continues to make bone headed game management mistakes that cost of football games.
    cml750 likes this.
  4. Coy

    Coy Well-Known Member

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    I do believe that he wants to win, I don't doubt that, all I am saying is that he has accepted mediocrity with Garrett because he thinhks he'll see the benefits in the future, he said so himself.
    cml750 likes this.
  5. brdawk20forever

    brdawk20forever New Member

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  6. Mansta54

    Mansta54 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there's plenty of room on that eagles bandwagon, help yourself. Bye!!!!
  7. Coy

    Coy Well-Known Member

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    Here's the list, most of them did better than the year before, so they kind of did turn around their franchise.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag/_/name/2013-new-nfl-head-coaches

    Arians, Trestman (no Cutler and tons of D injuries, by the way Lovie was fired with a 10-6 record), Kelly, Marrone (had to play with 3 diff QB's), Chudzinski (3 diff QB's), very bad ones by the way, Gus Bradley, Andy Reid and Mike McCoy, that group did very well, much better than ehat we did in Dallas.
  8. brdawk20forever

    brdawk20forever New Member

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    Andy Reid's record is a bit deceiving. When Jim Johnson was his DC, Reid's record was 97-67-1, with a 10-7 record in the playoffs. After JJ passed on, his record was 33-31, 0-2 in the playoffs, with one of those losses I'm sure you remember well. Reid gave JJ 100% control of the defense. That defense tied for the league lead in sacks from 200-2007 (342), was 2nd in 3rd down % (34.3), 2nd in red zone TD % (43.4), and 4th in points allowed per game (17.6). Johnson made sure guys like Brian Dawkins, Troy Vincent, Jeremiah Trotter, Hugh Douglas, Lito Sheppard, and a list of others were in the best position to make plays. 26 times JJ's men made it to the pro bowl. When Reid lost that, his magic touch for winning left as well.

    Reid also suffered after McNabb started to go downhill. He never found a solid, consistent replacement. Reid's last two years were horrible. It was time to go. He needed a change, given all the hardship he went through.

    Now, Reid went to KC and took over a team loaded with talent (six pro bowlers). His success is warranted, but it also shows just how bad of a HC Romeo Crannel was in KC.

    As for Kelly...I remember another college hot shot coach going to a team. That team finished 1-15 his first year I believe. That man's name was Jimmy Johnson, and there were a lot of people wondering if he could do the job. Jones kept him and it worked out. (robbing Minny on a trade sure helped too). I and many other Eagle fans were envious of Johnson. I wished for a guy like him to take over. I am hoping that Kelly is our Jimmy Johnson. And if he is, I hope Lurie doesn't pull a Jones and kick him to the curb.
    tommydo08 likes this.
  9. PA Cowboy Fan

    PA Cowboy Fan Well-Known Member

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    Jerry will continue to support Garrett until the Cowboys aren't relevant anymore. After all he wants a good show.
    cml750 likes this.
  10. Blue&Silver

    Blue&Silver Member

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    I think Jerry knows Garrett isn't a very good head coach, but he won't admit defeat publicly. He's going to continue force-feeding him on the team, and us, until the guy becomes good so he can say I told you so. It's stubbornness. He might be good some day, but it's coming at the cost of the fans, and franchise, now.
    cml750 and Chocolate Lab like this.
  11. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    I take everything he says with a grain of salt. I can only try to think what I'd do were I him.

    Despite how it appears at times, Jerry is not stupid even if he occasionally does something stupid. Of course we all learn as time goes by.....well at least most of us.
  12. blindzebra

    blindzebra Well-Known Member

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    Oh how soon they forget.

    Garrett inherited a 1-7 team without its starting QB and went 5-3 and the losses were by 3, 3, and 1 point. He increased the win total to 8 and then had two injury filled seasons making his defense horrible.
  13. Rogerthat12

    Rogerthat12 DWAREZ

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    Are You not entertained?....lol
    Chappy, cml750 and PA Cowboy Fan like this.
  14. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    I am sure the Cowboys will put that in the program for next year...................the chapter titled "playoffs" is blank so they are going to need to fill the pages with something.


    You know only loser franchises play the "we only lost X number of games by only Y number of points" card.
    cml750 likes this.
  15. Coy

    Coy Well-Known Member

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    Serious question, who would you rather have coaching this team, Garrett or Belichick? Let me rephrase it, In today's NFL, is there any other coach you'd rather have? If so, how many?
    Because from what you post about him it seems you think he is a heck of a HC.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  16. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Galley was fired because the vets hated his guts. Not sure it was a mistake given Gaileys record after leaving.

    Again I was fine if Garrett was fired and fine if he was kept. I think he is a middle of road coach improving from poor.

    But I like Jerry being honest and saying talent on field wasn't as strong this year. Injuries hurt, guys like miles and ware declining hurt. Jerry and the personnel guys have more to do with 8-8 than the head coach IMHO.

    Garrett didn't get out coached 8 times. In years past it happened regularly but not this year. So I am fine with his return as few options would improve our win total next year. That is going to be determined by adding talent.
  17. DOUBLE WING

    DOUBLE WING Well-Known Member

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    How many mediocre, playoff-less 8-8 seasons does this miraculous 5-3 start Garrett got off to as interim head coach buy him in your book?
  18. NinePointOh

    NinePointOh Well-Known Member

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    You haven't contributed anything that hasn't been posited eight times already in the thread, and I've responded to it already.
  19. REDVOLUTION

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    Yep.


    Turnovers gave him the game. We agave him the game.

    I think they get destroyed by saints.
  20. CowboysFaninDC

    CowboysFaninDC Well-Known Member

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    the cupboard wasn't exactly empty when he got there. team had grown tired of Reid and it was time for him to go. plus last year was Foley's grow up year. we knew vick sucked. and we can also see Reid is still capable and probably needed a change of scenary. I am not dismissing Kelly as a good coach, but he didn't exactly perform a miracle. he did have some nice pieces to work with.

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