Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Yakuza Rich, Dec 31, 2012.
YR going soft in his old age.
Sir, excellent work.
Did your source give you any names of players that Garrett is working to 'turn around'?
Also, I applaud your ability to remain calm, stay on message and respond with an intelligent rationale when your views are being attacked.
Can't ignore what you've brought up but I'd rather look at the players, coaches and organizations for the most part.
This organization is roughly break even for almost two decades. You cannot ignore that.
Romo makes mistakes at critical times. That last interception was just totally unacceptable. You can't throw that and on top of that it was just a pitiful throw. I can throw better and I can't throw.
Romo can be elite but he has to avoid that crap. And he's done it too many times. I haven't given up on him but I'll never entirely forgive him for that one. He may not have won the game or tied it but you can't give it away.
Having said that I won't give up on him. He's also the reason we were in Wash with the title on the line. An we weren't going anywhere anyway with that D playing with bandaids and duct tape.
Having said all that we will be in the hunt next year and I will be a tad surprised if we aren't in it at the end given better health.
Also, my confidence in Garrett is at an all time low. They should have adjusted to that blitz and tore them a new one.
I'm with you. I'm a Garrett supporter, mainly because we need continuity at the coaching position and I do think Garrett has a plan and prescription to get this team back to winning.
Having said that, I was really hoping Garrett would 'rise above' and transcend the situation by breaking the old pattern of losing the big, important games. I was hoping for an inspired team, new wrinkles to catch Washington off guard and a confident team that would simply not accept defeat.
It was disappointing... but, with all of the injuries, maybe it was simply not reasonable to expect that this year.
I love this post!
I look forward to next year because:
1) Fans of 31 teams will be looking forward to next year.
2) The Boys play in SD so I can go see them again.
3) What else can I do.
This has been needed for several years. Could this finally be the year they do something about it? I hope so, because I'm tired of over achieving to be 8-8 with what we have and then thinking we are "close" and then more or less standing pat.
I don't think Garrett has it in him as a playcaller. I can see why somebody like Jerry would want a coach that calls plays. If a coordinator has success and then leaves to go elsewhere, it causes you to find a new coordinator and hope that person can do the job. If your HC is calling plays and he's good at that like Sean Payton is, you don't have to ever worry about that.
But, I'm convinced that it takes a real special HC to call the plays and be a good HC at the same time. Even Andy Reid gave up play calling duties. I personally don't look at Reid as a genius, but I know he is revered in the league and he gave up the duties. I also often wonder if maybe you're better off having a coordinator up in the booth for a better view. Years ago I talked to George O'Leary about that as he's from my hometown and he said he could not get any feel for playcalling down on the field whatsoever.
As far as Romo goes, I'm a big believer in always prepping the QB position for the future. I still can't figure out why organizations refuse to take Ron Wolf's old strategy of drafting a talented QB in the 6th or 7th round of the draft, let him develop, get him some quality time in the preseason and then they can trade him away for a higher pick later on.
We are now getting too late into doing that. We need to probably draft somebody in rounds 2 thru 4 and let them sit and watch for 2 years and then take over.
I have a bit of a hard time knocking Romo because I liked what I saw from him in the last half of the season. We had too many of those games that were ultra important and he played terrific in them. He got on guys when they messed up and really got his arse kicked the entire season and fought thru it.
We need to get a better O-Line and better safeties in here. We need to get guys that can protect the passer better and run the ball the better to make Romo more effective. Then we need guys that can stop the pass and get interceptions. If you put a lot on Romo for every game, he will eventually mess up. But, the same could be said for every QB not named Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.
Yeah, I get ticked when Romo makes bad decisions and bad throws and doesn't protect the ball. But, we have to realize something I've been saying for years....he's not an elite QB.
There's nothing wrong with that. There are only 4 elite QB's in this game IMO.
He's not one of them.
That does not mean we should dump him. We just need to get the team better around him to account for that.
I have thought about that for a while.
Anybody who knows me knows that I'm a big fan of stockpiling draft picks. And I generally dislike trading away picks to get one player.
We did that with Claiborne.
Although, the scouts felt he was the best cornerback in the draft in perhaps the last 10 years. They felt he was the best defensive player in the draft as well. And essentially we only gave up a 2nd round pick for him. Combine that with the rookie salary cap, the deal looked better.
From watching All-22, I thought Claiborne was great this year. He has a little issue with trailing in coverage on crossing routes and slants. His tackling improved a lot. But his general man-to-man coverage was excellent and he was getting very good in zone coverage. So it appeared to me that the scouts knew what they were talking about.
I liked what I saw in Brandon Carr as well. And I think Crawford was very good this year all things considered.
I generally think we were much better on defense. The injuries ate us up. To me, I think if we stay healthy the stuff we did in the offseason worked and worked quite well.
I think it's a bit like the Falcons did when they gave up all of those picks to trade up and get Julio Jones. It hurt them in the short term as they didn't make the playoffs that year, but as long as they got the player they wanted for their team and he was as good as advertised...then they went back garnering picks instead of trading them away...it works out in the end. It may hurt you for 1-year, but 2-years down the road it will pay dividends.
The thing with Dallas is we can't continue to trade away picks, thinking that because we got Clairborne by trading up, it will always work. Now we need depth on defense. We need safeties, which are usually undervalued in the NFL. And we need O-Linemen, also undervalued in the NFL.
I don't think it's preposterous to think that our offseason moves were done to work more in 2013 and beyond than in 2012.
I like your attitude!!!!!!!!!! the pain fades slowly but there is always next year
absolutely agree with the assessment that Garrett doesnt have that special something as a play caller. Too often after too many games there were head scratchers and I didnt see the growth that experience may give. There seems to almost be a lag time in the play calling where it takes several series to adjust to what the opponent is doing and that I believe comes from as you said being down on the field and unable to see the big picture
I like what I saw as some growth in Romo as far as being a team leader but he is what he is at this point in his career and we have to accept that
The most important thing we can do is improve that offensive line. To be able to dominate the opposing defensive line and dictate what the Cowboys will do to their opponent. I want to get back to the point where we can say "we are going to jam the ball down your throat and you cant do a thing about it" This will alleviate alot of the play calling issues perhaps and reduce the potential for panic Romo mistakes
Do you agree that as a long time Romo watcher you can almost sense when he gets jumpy? All it takes is early pressure up the middle and Romo loses his calm and cool resulting in footwork and mechanic issues
I just dont know how or if they will or can make changes to the offensive line
The investment in Livings, MB and Free money wise makes me fear that things will be the same as this year in 2013
I have always thought if you have an opportunity to grab a true blue chip player in the draft you do it. My initial reaction when atlanta moved up and when Wash moved up for RG3 was wow that was a ton to give up but if you can get that blue chipper that elevates others or solidifies an important position for the next 10 years, you do it
Given the success rate of second and third round picks remaining in the NFL 3-4 years after selection, personally I prefer taking a chance on giving those picks up to get a blue chipper. I guess it all boils down to how good the man and the scouting team making the picks is but given Belichicks reputation, his stockpiling of picks and subsequent players chosen is not showing well lately
I think YR knows that I like him, so I'm not attacking him at all when I say this. I don't doubt what he heard one bit.
But when you boil it down, this is just the same tired crap we've heard for almost four years now: It's all Wade's fault. Garrett is stealthily working behind the scenes to correct all these wrongs. He doesn't have the right players. He's actually doing a great job.
What a bunch of BS.
Garrett has had two and a half years now to correct all these supposed wrongs. Two and a half years to wear pads on Wednesdays. Two and a half years to cut any low-character, low-IQ player he deems inferior. Two and a half years to remove all the obstacles poor Jason supposedly has to deal with.
And yet we still can't run the ball. We still make mental errors. We still rank near the worst in the league in penalties. We still have low-IQ losers like Kevin Ogletree on the team. We still can't get in the playoffs even with the NFC East as bad as it has been in years. We still can't do better than .500.
It's such BS.
You want a truly difficult situation, Jason? Go to Buffalo. Go to Jacksonville. Go to Kansas City. Go to a place with no players, no recent success, and most of all, no quarterback. Those are places that might take years to turn around. Not a place where the team had won the NFCE (when it was actually good) two of the last three years the year before you got there, a place with almost all the key players like still in place.
There's a saying in football I'm sure everyone here knows: Put it on the tape. That means, don't talk about it, don't tell everyone how good you are, don't make excuses. If you're as good as you claim you are, demonstrate it by putting your play on the tape for everyone to see. Well, when you take away all the excuses, all the secret sources, all the politicking, all the old teammates and buddies in the DFW media, what Garrett has put on the tape is nothing better than average at the very best. His biggest claim in the instant turnaround climate of today's NFL is that it's taken him this long to get guys to play hard. What a load of garbage.
Too bad that so many people think that's perfectly acceptable anymore. At least a few of us can see that the emperor has no clothes.
Fantastic stuff, YR. I agree with you, top to bottom, and I'd love to hear your take (and anyone else's) on what I think is actually Garrett's biggest downfall: the entire design of his offense.
I just don't think his schemes do anything to help the players. For the sake of illustration: IMHO, RG3 and Albert Morris are exceptional rookies, but their success this season has had at least as much to do with the schemes in which they operate as it has their talent. Put the Dallas personnel in Shanahan's offense and I think you'll see just how good Tony Romo, DeMarco Murray and Tyron Smith can be. And it's not just about using a "better" scheme. It's about tailoring what you do on the field to the strengths of the guys doing it.
I'm not saying this because of Washington's success, either. C Lab and I have been discussing off and on the past coupla years our belief that Romo would thrive in Shanahan's zone-running boot-action offense. Romo is not Troy Aikman. Sitting in the pocket and throwing 20-yard outs is not his forte. Romo is a mobile player who handles the ball well and throws well on the move. The Broncos offered Romo more money than Jerry did for a reason. There's a reason Shanahan wanted Romo in Denver. There's a reason RG3 is having success--running an option offense that experts have said for years won't work in the NFL. Why Garrett has steadfastly refused to tailor the Cowboys playbook to the stuff Romo does best is, BY FAR, the biggest question in my mind.
Why wasnt Romo moved around the pocket when it became apparent that the Redskins were going to blitz every chance they got?
Why not utilize Murray more as a pass catcher in space?
Seems the Redskins success was to put their players in positions to succeed and utilize strengths. Seriously at the beginning of the season, looking at the essentially no name receiving core, a 6th round running back I never heard of and I follow college and the draft closely, a bunch of JAGS on the offensive line and a rookie QB with virtually no pro style experience in college compared to Luck, there was no way I thought the Redskins would have the best rushing attack in the league and win the NFC East!!!!
shows you how much I know
YR, great thread. The statistical approach to looking at season to season, in perspective, for all teams, is always interesting.
And what you're saying about JG is almost exactly what I've suspected about him as a head coach. Right now, he's a much better HC during the week than he is on game day, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. You can tell that he's changed the way the organization has done things, and, yes, you can tell that we're acquiring more talent each of the last two off seasons. He already has 'put it on tape,' though what he's put on tape isn't exactly what people wanted to see. They want to see the victories at all costs, and we've had enough issues crop up (some holes in the roster initially, and then significant injuries on top of some of the bandaids we had in place this season) and it's made that challenging. But you can see what he's doing. And you can see some of the results already. It's going to get better.
I've said this before, but I recommend anybody who enjoys mocking the 'process' mantra pick up one of the various John Wooden. What Garrett's doing is pretty much direct from Wooden's playbook, philosophically. The quotes from the press conferences that get under people's skin, the focus on process, repetition, finding the right kind of players, focussing on the execution of the play and not the game, all of it is straight from John Wooden. I'd hope understanding where it comes from would take some of the vitriol out of some posters' takes on JG. Like with any coach, there are going to be some people who just never like him, but it's obvious what the guy believes in, and he's doing a great job instilling it in his team and expressing it to the press. We'll find out next year if it's going to work in today's NFL or not. I still think, wholeheartedly, it will. I'm glad to see some validation of that in your OP, even if the source from the organization needs to remain anonymous.
And he is trying to implement the PROCESS in unique conditions in Dallas with JJones as owner GM
I think we can all recognize that there is a Jerry Jones effect he has to deal with
I still cannot believe fans defend or have faith in Garrett.
Hope, it is all you have with such mediocrity.
But Idgit, poll every coach of every team in America at every level, and how many wouldn't claim they believe in Wooden's principles? Practically none. So what makes Garrett so special when he says it?
Every coach wants to do basically the same things. Every coach wants its team to play hard, to limit mistakes, to execute properly. What matters is if can actually get his team to do it. Same as with players... I bet Mark Sanchez wants to do the same things Tom Brady does, but that doesn't mean he can do it. Take even Garrett's own career as a player -- he probably preached the same principles for success as Troy Aikman, but he wasn't 1/10 the player.
It's a production business, not a cliche preaching business. Or at least it's supposed to be.