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Will the 4-3 Tampa 2 take time?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Arkyvarminter, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Arkyvarminter

    Arkyvarminter Well-Known Member

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    I'm just wondering how long, or how many games, will it take before the players are comfortable with it? I know it seemed Rob Ryans scheme was time consuming in terms of learning his system. I guess I'm just hoping this new D won't affect us midway through the season like Rob's did. Also, does anyone know what will happen with the safety position? Will it be addressed through the draft? Thanks
  2. sureletsrace

    sureletsrace Official CZ Homer

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    It won't take anywhere near as long as rob ryans defense. The players on defense have played in 43 sets many, many times. The player with the steepest learning curve is luckily our LB Sean Lee, who is probably the most instinctive, cerebral, film junkie player on our team. ;)

    Its just going to be a matter of getting the right players in the right spots, which I trust Monte Kiffin to do.
  3. EJ Blue

    EJ Blue Member

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    ha I was just about to ask the same thing. I don't want this to be one of those things were people say
    "Well the season is over, since the defense only had one year to play under the 4-3, they'll be much more improved in their second year because the installation takes time."
  4. ykc

    ykc Active Member

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    I believe in good coaches can correctly use talent by enforcing their strengths and hiding thier weakness and the also bad coaches misuing the talent.

    But with out talent, not coach and scheme can help us. I remember this game when Tony had a monster game against Bucs defense by Monte Kiffin

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=261123006


    Also, It is not new scheme to counter the new/current popular offense in NFL, the air attack and read option offense. This defense is in the league for more than 20 years and every offensive coordinate probably knows how to exploit it by now
  5. Picksix

    Picksix A Work in Progress

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    You're right, it doesn't matter what scheme you're running if you don't have the talent to make it work. The 2006 Bucs were a lousy team.
  6. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    1) Switching to a 4-3 is easier than switching to a 3-4 because most college teams play a 4-3 variation. Most of our outside linebackers had to convert from 4-3 end, which is difficult.

    2) Players who've played for Kiffin have said he keeps things simple, focusing more on fundamentals than complicated play-calling.
  7. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    The 4-3 has been around since Tom Landry created it, and offenses have been exploiting the bad versions of it forever and struggling against the good versions of it.

    A new version isn't needed to counter new trends. A good version is.
  8. CyberB0b

    CyberB0b Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    It will take a year or two to get the proper personnel. With that said, the current players should be able to learn the system, as it seems pretty simple to me. The only problem is I think it is easier for the offense to decipher, as well, which means you need to win a lot of individual battles.

    That will be tough with our current D-line and Safety situation.
  9. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    Won't take long to learn it, will take longer to get good at it.
  10. cowboys1981

    cowboys1981 Well-Known Member

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    IMO the concern should be about discipline in assignments and making open field tackles. I don't think the scheme will be too challenging.
  11. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    It's a process. But at least it's our own process.
  12. Prossman

    Prossman Active Member

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    I think we are closer personel wise to Kiffens 4-3 than we were to being able to run ryans 3-4 with losing both NTs . What is encouraging is when ware said that they had put in more defense in 1 day under ryan than in wades entire time here. With the film junkies we have on this team they will know the defense before we get to camp, it's not that complicated.
  13. HoosierCowboy

    HoosierCowboy Put Pearson in the HOF

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    the days of lining up in any standard defense are over--we will run plenty of variations on a theme (the 4-3)-- but it will be simple and allow players to play instinctively and not be paralyzed by having to think all the time (in Ryan's schemes)--tired of seeing guys get burned and then look around like they did not know what happened
  14. BIGDen

    BIGDen Dr. Freakasaurus Zone Supporter

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    I might be a little optimistic about it, but this is how I see it as well. Rob's defense involved various looks and was constantly trying to confuse the offense. Unfortunately, we were the team that frequently looked confused (9,10, or 12 men on the field and players running wide open from busted coverages). This defense is more straight forward and aggressive. The players need to win their battles and execute. They can't miss tackles and run by the QB or RB. DBs need to be sure tacklers. I like the aggressive mindset of this kind defense up front. For various reasons (injuries, coaching, whatever...) we were not that aggressive with Ryan's defense. I hoped we would be a more attacking 3-4 like Pittsburgh's but that never materialized. IMO, we need at least one good DL addition that creates pressure. He can be a DE or DT, but the guy needs to be able to penetrate the LOS or push the pocket and make the QB uncomfortable. Throw in a couple of upgrades on the OL and I think we'll have a team that will be able to do some damage.
  15. The Natural

    The Natural Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure it'll take time to find 2 capable safeties
  16. jazzcat22

    jazzcat22 Well-Known Member

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    This new defense will be better by mid season as usual it will take a few games to see where the kinks need to be worked out.
    But it will not look as disorganized as Ryan's defense did. Did Ryan ever seem to have a defensive game plan. I think he spent more time on what picture he was going to put on his play card more than he worked on an actual game plan.

    I think they will find a saftey in FA or the draft, even if he doesn't start right away. But with Church coming off the injury, and even though people are down on Sensabaugh, I think he will be decent but not the long term answer of course.
  17. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    DLine: Quick learning curve. Kiffin's defense is not a read and react type for the DL. They're just required to get into the backfield and disrupt the offense.

    LB: This postion has a longer learning curve than DL in Kiffin's defense. Fortunately, Sean Lee will be the field general. He has probably already immersed himself in the study of this defense. Carter played in a 4-3 in college. If they re-sign Ernie Sims, he is a 4-3 LB and played for Detroit when Marinelli was the Head-Coach.

    CB: Kiffin is expected to play them to their strengths. Learning curve should be very short.

    Safety: ??? This is the big question mark. It was a questionable position with or without the change in defenses. Sensabaugh has athletic ability; however, he has struggled with the mental/instincts side of playing the position. I think that the "keys" or reads in Kiffin's defense will be simpler than in Ryan's. Church is the opposite of Sensabaugh. He is an instinctive player but has borderline athleticism. Recovery from an Achilles injury is not a given.

    Summary:
    If the Cowboys could add a Safety that knows Kiffin's defense, then I think the transition would be almost instantaneous.
  18. Blue Eyed Devil

    Blue Eyed Devil Active Member

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    The team does not have the following pieces

    - 1-tech DT
    - strong-side DE
    - strong-side linebacker
    - capable safety

    There's also significant questions about DE and LB depth. I mean, if Ware goes down, who can play his position? Last year Victor Butler was that guy but Butler is a free agent and if re-signed is only 245lbs where DEs are 275lbs. We really don't have the personnel to play the 4-3 and we REALLY don't have the depth.

    Then when you factor in replacing the aging Ware I guess about 4 drafts before we have a comfortable deep 4-3 roster
  19. gmoney112

    gmoney112 Well-Known Member

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    Que?

    We have multiple guys that can play the 1 or 3 technique.

    Crawford and Hatcher can both kick out to play SDE.

    They like Wilber at SLB and Albright will be given a chance too.

    Safety is a big question mark right now. I like Church and the team likes Matt Johnson but they're definitely not a proven commodity at this point.

    I think two drafts will be needed until we're in the discussion of a "dominant" defense. But I fully expect us to be in the top half of nearly every statistical category if we can stay healthy.
  20. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Weak-Side DEs in Kiffin defenses are not required to be 275 lbs. Bruce Irvin (248) and Chris Clemons (254) are the WDEs in Seattle where a Kiffin protege is the DC.

    1-tech: Ratliff, Lissemore

    SDE: Crawford. SDE does not require a super edge-bending pass-rusher like the WDE or the SDE in some other defenses.

    SLB: Does not require a premium talent in the Kiffin defense.

    Safety: This was an issue with or without the change in defenses.

    .

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