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"Win-or-go-home" from a team point of view

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by percyhoward, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

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    That stuff does not count or compute, to many stats. Don't use stats to make your point. The defense has nothing to do with any of that.

    We are talking about why Romo is the only player that Cowboy fans stick up for! Keep up...

    (stupid cowboy fans)
  2. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    No theory, it's fact.
  3. DandyDon1722

    DandyDon1722 It's been a good 'un, ain't it?

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    I tend to agree with this and Peyton Manning is a good example. Of course I have to include the usual caveat that Im not comparing Tony to Peyton but he has made some pretty horrible throws in clutch situations over the tears the worst being last year against Baltimore in OT forcing a ball over the middle and throwing against his body that cost his team every bit the same Romo did.

    But this is where Super Bowl wins count. Peyton never won a championship in college and went a long time with the Colts before he won one but just that one has brought him a lot of forgiveness including the pick six in the Super Bowl loss to the Saints. Can you imagine if he hadn't won a Super Bowl at this point?

    I wonder when Matt Ryan will start hearing it. He's had two 13-3 teams with only one playoff win. Probably never as much as Romo because he's the QB of the Dallas Cowboys and I for one like the scrutiny that comes with that.
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  4. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member

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    So then, following your logic here, the majority of football fans who follow the game and hold the QB's who win Super Bowls in the highest regard are clueless?

    Is that your contention?
  5. Aurican

    Aurican Active Member

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    5Stars likes this.
  6. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

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    That is true...but he say's nothing about the other players that are on the winning QB's team.

    All those great QB's had teammates around them that made it all happen.
  7. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if the majority do or not, but anyone who judges QB's solely on Super Bowl wins is clueless.
  8. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member

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    Not what I said at all, is it?
  9. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    Don't try and twist my words. Anyone who judges QB's solely on Super Bowl wins or losses is clueless.
    5Stars likes this.
  10. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    The Packers wouldn't be near the team they are without Rodgers it's a fact. During the Packers 15-1 2011 season Rodgers passer rating was over 100.0 in 13 games. He had one passer rating game below 90.0 during the regular season vs the Chiefs and it resulted in the Packers only loss. The Packers ranked 3rd in total offense all due to Rodgers arm. They ranked a dismal 27th in rushing. Rodgers was sacked 36 times that season the same number Romo got sacked last season. Although the Packers defense created turnovers in 2011 that unit ranked dead last in total defense and GB still managed to go 15-1.

    Do you think they would have come anywhere close to that record without Rodgers? In the playoffs that season vs the Giants Rodgers only completed 56.5% of his passes well below his 68.3 completion percentage during the regular season. He had a turnover and finished the game with his lowest passer rating of the season 78.5 which resulted in a one and out. Rodgers got outplayed by Eli who had an outstanding game finishing with a passer rating of 114.5. In the playoffs and SB it comes down to which QB plays the best. That's where the game is today.
  11. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Where did I say QB's are judged solely on the number of SB wins they have? Your agenda couldn't be more obvious.
  12. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    You're the one who's twisting everyones words where did anyone say QB's are judged solely on SB wins or losses?
  13. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

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    I'll try a more direct approach. Simple question: What's more important: the performance of your QB, or the performance of your pass defense?
  14. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    That's an easy one for me I would go with the performance of your QB because we just saw a QB win a SB with his pass defense giving 302 yards. Ben Roethlisberger won a SB in 08 with his defense being shredded by Kurt Warner for 377 yards. Drew Brees led NO over the Cowboys last season despite his pass defense being scrotched for 416 yards. QB's who are on their game can overcome a poor pass defensive effort. Go see how many wins you can come up with the past 2 seasons from teams whose QB's played poorly.

    You can come up with a lot of wins from teams whose pass defense gave up a lot of yards because their QB was able to overcome it with a great passing game of their own. In this era of prolific passing attacks especially with all the rule changes it's becoming more difficult each season to stop teams through the air. We're seeing more and more shootouts between QB's. The player safety rules have opened up the passing game and you simply can't win games if your QB isn't performing at a high level.
  15. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

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    There's no difference. One can't be more important than the other because they're the same thing looked at from different viewpoints.
  16. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    A QB's performance is vital to a teams success because you have no chance of winning if they're off their game and turn the ball over 4-5 times. A QB can make or break you depending on their performance. There's been a lot more QB's go #1 overall than defensive players because they greatly impact and influence the outcome of so many games. All you can hope to do in todays NFL is try and neutralize an opponents passing attack. Teams are loading up on pass rushers to try and disrupt the QB. Some experts have said including Charlie Casserly that the Chiefs would have been a playoff team last season if they had a solid QB.

    Offenses are able to spread defenses out with 4-5 WR sets and hit seams with short quick passes to slot receivers. Teams use the pass like the run to move the football. If you had the #1 overall pick and had a choice between the highest rated QB in the last decade and the highest rated defensive player in the last decade who would you pick and why?
  17. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

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    I mean there's really, truly no difference.

    Just turn it around, and you can say all the same things. A pass defense's performance is vital to a team's success because you have no chance of losing if the opposing QB is off his game and turns the ball over 4-5 times. The opposing QB can make or break his team depending on his performance, etc.

    The exact same plays that make up an offensive performance are used to measure the corresponding defensive performance. Your team's offensive performance is the other team's defensive performance, and vice-versa.

    The average offensive passer rating in the league will always be exactly the same as the average defensive passer rating. Always. Every year. There will always be the same number of TD scored as there are allowed, same number of games lost as games won. Every year.
  18. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    The QB is the most vital component in building a championship team which is why most bad teams that are selecting #1 overall in the draft take a QB. Most real bad teams are real bad because they have a crap QB situation. The Baltimore teams that lost back to back AFC title games in 08 and 09 were far better defensive teams than what the Ravens won a championship with last season but they couldn't get over the hump due to Flacco's awful performances in the title games. In the 08 AFC title game Flacco was dreadful completing only 43.3% of his passes and tossing 3 int's. He finished the game with an embarrassing 18.2 passer rating. The following year in the AFC title game Flacco again was awful turning the ball over twice and finishing the game with a 48.4 passer rating. When it came down to him having to make plays he couldn't get it done because he was a bus driver. Even a stout defense can only hold up so long if their QB can't generate any offense or points.You keep putting your defense back on the field because of 3 and outs and turnovers they're going to break eventually.

    The Ravens ranked #2 in total defense in 08 and #3 in 09. Arguably the greatest defense the NFL has ever seen was the 85 Bears defense and the only game that team lost was due to getting picked apart by one of the greatest passers in NFL history. In the 2011 SB the Giants and Pats had the 2 lowest rated defenses to ever play in a SB. NE's D was ranked #31 and NY was ranked #27 in total defense. Pass defense is important no question but even the best defenses are having trouble stopping potent passing attacks. The Steelers had the #1 defense in 08 but Warner lit them up in the SB for 377 yards and 3 TD's. Defenses have not only been hindered by all the rule changes the last few years but the receivers today are bigger and faster than years ago.

    DB's are at a big disadvantage trying to defend a 6' 3" to 6' 5" 220 to 235 lb WR who runs under a 4.4 40. The receivers today are big, fast and physical and you pair them up with a prolific passer and all you can hope to do as a defense is try and keep offenses out of the end zone. With the QB's, receivers and schemes today offenses are going to move the football and some weeks it comes down to which team can outscore the other in a shootout. Last postseason Aaron Rodgers had a nice game vs SF completing almost 68% of his passes. He tossed 2 TD's and finished with a passer rating of 91.5 but the game turned into a shootout and Rodgers was outgunned by Kaepernick who put up 444 yards passing and rushing and scored 4 TD's.

    The duel threat QB has added an element that's going to make it even harder for defenses to put the clamps down. These QB's can burn you through the air and on the ground. When you have a QB who can account for 444 yards of offense and 4 TD's that's going to greatly influence the outcome of a game. Alex Smith was playing pretty good for SF but in todays game teams are looking for a real game changing QB at the position because big games come down to QB's having to make plays to win.
  19. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    It has nothing to do with stats yes Rodgers played great and the Packers still lost that is the fricken point. It is not about the QB it is about the team always has been. QB do not win SB that is a load of BS TEAMS wins SB it is not hard to figure out unless all you do is listen to these pin heads in the media. I don't care how great a QB is he will only win when he has a team that can perform around him.
  20. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Romo had a bad game vs Wash so did a lot of player, Romo has taken the heat and rightfully so but Washington is 1 game you guys act as if it is the only game he has played in. Romo has faults as do all players but to win you need to block, you need to run and you need to play defense and make plays it is not all about Romo but you guys do not get it. You act as if this team is 1 man it is not.
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