1. Welcome to CowboysZone!  Join us!  Come on!  You know you want to!

"Win-or-go-home" from a team point of view

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by percyhoward, Jul 14, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

    26,328 Messages
    73 Likes Received
    Drew Brees has played in 9 playoff games. His TD-INT ratio is 22-4, which is one of (if not the) best of all time. It dwarfs players like Brady and Manning and is even better than Rodgers in the same amount of games. His playoff record is 5-4.

    Ben Roethlisberger has played in 14 playoff games. His TD-INT ratio is 20-17, two less TDs than Brees and 13 more INTs in 5 more games. His playoff record is 10-4.

    Why the disparity in record? If "the QB is the most important player on the field and gets credit for wins and losses"...why don't the performances match up with expectations then? Brees has performed at a much higher level why isn't his record better than Ben's?
    5Stars likes this.
  2. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    9,756 Messages
    511 Likes Received
    No one said the QB gets the credit for wins and losses that's putting the wins and losses entirely on the QB. QB's receive "most" of the credit for wins and losses that's what's being conveyed which is why QB's have been named league and SB MVP's more than any other position. Both Roethlisberger and Brees have more postseason TD's than int's and have won 3 SB's between them. A QB's TD to turnover ratio isn't the only factor in determining wins and losses but it is a very important factor in postseason. Roethlisberger has been able to get away with some turnovers because his defenses have forced them. His defense has also been able to defend some of his turnovers keeping teams out of the end zone.
  3. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

    25,085 Messages
    789 Likes Received


    Oh...so now the defense comes into the "team"s play, but Romo's defense has nothing to do with why the Cowboys are an average team?

    You know what, I don't know if you know, but sometimes it's like you argue with yourself!

    lmao
  4. Section444

    Section444 Well-Known Member

    3,816 Messages
    493 Likes Received
    Feels like we're just going in circles at this point.
  5. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

    25,085 Messages
    789 Likes Received
    That is because one poster is spinning around like a top! He wants the last word, and dammit, if he does not get it, he will keep going and going and going until he does!

    lmao
    Section444 likes this.
  6. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    9,756 Messages
    511 Likes Received
    Doubt Roethlisbergers defenses would have been able to overcome 12 turnovers in 6 elimination games. They couldn't overcome 2 of his turnovers vs the Packers in the SB.
  7. Section444

    Section444 Well-Known Member

    3,816 Messages
    493 Likes Received
    He's got a good point, you and Percy have good points. The answer is that there isn't one, Romo is a good QB (not great QB), and for the most part, we're lucky to have him. While the QB justifiably gets most of the blame/credit, everyone has to do their job, especially the pass defense in a pass oriented league.
  8. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

    26,328 Messages
    73 Likes Received
    So if guys like Roethlisberger and Brady have much better WOGH records than someone like Brees, despite not even being able to put up close to the performance Brees has in the playoffs year after year, this tells us....what?
  9. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

    25,085 Messages
    789 Likes Received
    That is two turnovers in 12 games
    Good answer...
    Section444 likes this.
  10. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

    26,328 Messages
    73 Likes Received
    IOW...Your passing offense is no more important than your passing defense.

    No matter how well (or poorly) you play as a QB, all you need is for your defense to make one more stop than theirs. You need to pass well and stop the pass. We do exactly one of those things.
    5Stars likes this.
  11. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

    25,085 Messages
    789 Likes Received
    Another good answer! If only others knew the concept of TEAM!

    Flacco won the SB last year, but his defense had nothing to do with that.

    smh
  12. Section444

    Section444 Well-Known Member

    3,816 Messages
    493 Likes Received
    I just need Romo to play consistently well from start to finish in big games. The two games I can't get out of my head are the Giants (home) game, and the Redskin (away) game. I felt like both of those should have been wins, and would have been had we gotten a good game from start to finish from Romo.
  13. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

    7,658 Messages
    1,137 Likes Received
    These numbers are from the 2012 playoffs.

    Flacco 117.2 (defense's rating 72.4)
    Ryan 105.2 (defense's rating 116.0)

    Switch those defensive ratings and guess who definitely isn't MVP of the Super Bowl.
  14. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    9,756 Messages
    511 Likes Received
    It tells us the teams Brees has played for are living and dying with him. He's the modern day Dan Marino he puts up mega yards every season it's mostly all on him to have to win games. It's obvious by the incredible numbers he puts he's having to air it out every week. During the Saints SB run Brees' TD to turnover ratio was 8-0. All QB's need some help from their running game and defense they can't just carry a team every week. Brees has had some int issues himself. He put up 462 yards and 4 TD's vs SF during the playoffs in 2011 but lost due to 2 costly int's and a 4 TD performance passing and rushing by Alex Smith.
  15. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

    25,085 Messages
    789 Likes Received

    That's cool...Romo did play a part in those games as well. But that's not indicative of his whole play. Plus, those games were last year, and why that plays a part this coming year is beyond me. Why..?

    There are more things on the team that need fixed, Romo's not one of them.
  16. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

    26,328 Messages
    73 Likes Received
    I guess it depends on perspective at that point.

    I tallied it up and since 2006, no QB in the NFL has lost more games when they've posted a 90+ QB rating than Romo. I can't remember the exact number but the only player who was even close was Rodgers, and he had lost 4 less.

    Take a few of those and toss them in the win category and maybe suddenly our win or go home games are "rest your starters" games.

    I also want to look at number of sub-80 QB rating games QBs have and how many they win. I'd wager Romo is at or near the bottom of that list, as there are only a handful of games where he's played poorly where we've actually won. Just a quick glance, since 2006 Tom Brady is 10-11 when he posts a sub-80 QB rating. Romo's rating in that same time period is 8-17 (Didn't count the game against Philly where he threw two passes and left).

    Romo has only had THREE more games of sub-par performance (-80 rating than Brady. When Brady posts a sub-80 rating, because his TEAM is good enough, they have about a coinflip chance of winning. When Romo does it, our win percentage plummets to 32%.

    It's not tough to ascertain the reason behind the difference in results (W-L) despite nearly identical results in terms of QB performance. Well, it's not tough for some...

    Again...imagine if we could win a few more games when Romo performs badly, and actually get somewhere near average when he performs at an elite level....
  17. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

    26,328 Messages
    73 Likes Received
    It's almost like you know how wrong you are, you just refuse to actually admit it.
  18. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    9,756 Messages
    511 Likes Received
    It could be because no QB in the NFL that's posted a 90+ passer rating has more turnovers especially ill-timed turnovers than Romo. I haven't researched it but that could explain at least part of the reason why.
  19. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

    9,756 Messages
    511 Likes Received
    I'm giving you my opinion you're telling me your opinion is right and mine is wrong? LOL
  20. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

    26,328 Messages
    73 Likes Received
    Let me know how that turns out for you. Until then we'll go with the research that has actually been done - Romo loses more games where he posts an elite-level performance (90+ QB rating) than anyone in the league - by far.

    And when he actually plays poorly (at about the same rate as Tom Brady does), he wins far less games than the corresponding QB.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page