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"Win-or-go-home" from a team point of view

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by percyhoward, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Some are trying to say that. I mentioned Romo's 3rd int vs Washington with just over 3 minutes to play in the season finale and you immediately pointed to the defense for a roughing the passer penalty when they were stuck trying to defend a short field with time running down. You could have admitted Romo made a critical mistake but instead pointed to the defense for committing a penalty and not being able to make a stop. This is what FANS do if someone points to an obvious mistake by Romo they'll immediately start pointing the finger at another player or the defense. Romo AND the defense were at fault vs Washington and it cost the Cowboys the game. A lot of FANS try and take most of the blame off of Romo by pointing the finger at others when he deserves as much of the blame as everyone else.

    If the QB is playing well the play of their team usually elevates. This is why Denver was so successful with Tebow in 2011 his leadership got players to step up. Romo's leadership has always been in question even former players like Emmitt have questioned the leadership on the team. Although Emmitt never pointed the finger at Romo it was a knock on him because he asked where's the leadership on the team. It all comes down to a team believing in their QB especially during crunch time and some have questioned including a few experts and players around the league if the players around Romo believe in him.

    All facets do have to play well for a team to have success but it does start with the QB playing well. If the QB starts going bad and turning the ball over it can have a big impact on the performance of a team. You can't keep putting your defense on the field due to repeated turnovers and expect them to hold up. No question the Cowboys defense has been a big issue but having to defend 22 turnovers by their QB last season didn't help their cause.
  2. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    I would tell you to keep trying but you keep firing blanks. There's a reason why we haven't seen a defense like the 2000 Ravens in 13 years because the game keeps evolving and it's been geared more to offense. It's a QB driven league today we hear that all the time because it's true. The NFL wants exciting high scoring games and we're seeing them in the SB which was never the case years ago. All you have to do is open your eyes and see what's going on. No one said SF's D was as good as the 2000 Ravens but that SF team lost one fewer game than than 2000 Ravens. SF's D looked like the 85 Bears coming after Eli in the 2011 NFC title game. Eli was hit 22 times and was being thrown around like a rag doll.

    He got up after one hit with his helmet turned around and a clump of dirt stuck in his face mask. The 49ers had intense pressure on him all night but he hung in and made plays in the face of it. That's what top QB's can do today against any defense and Smith couldn't produce when it came down to him having to produce. Smith only completed 46.2% of his passes for less than 200 yards but SF's defense kept them in the game. The 49ers realized after that game that even a great defensive performance isn't going to get it done without a productive, playmaking QB. You simply can't win championships today with a great defensive performance and a bus driver at QB it will eventually catch up with you.
  3. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    You think the talk this year is Sunshine and Puppy Dogs?

    8-8 teams deserve to talk playoffs, btw.
  4. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen anybody write so much to say so little.
    The point was a defense like the Ravens 2000 or Bears 85 could help an average QB to a Super Bowl win.

    You on the other hand write copious amounts to describe a game(s) where one team’s defense knocked the others QB around.

    So really what you’re saying is defense wins championships!

    Now I'll wait for the two - three paragraph reply...
  5. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    I cover every base with facts leaving FANS like you with nothing of substance to respond back with. Why even bother to respond if that's all you have? The point is this isn't 1985 or 2000 the game has evolved into a QB driven league in which average QB's no longer are carried to SB wins by great defenses. It's pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't have an agenda that I'm saying defenses no longer win championships in today game because the rules favor offenses. Everything is geared to promote scoring and to protect the QB. The 2000 Ravens dumped Dilfer immediately after winning that SB because they knew they couldn't keep winning by having to rely on their defense every week.
  6. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    You cover only the bases that suit your agenda, substituting repetition and volume for facts.

    The Ravens may have dumped Dilfer but that was after their defense carried them to a Super Bowl win.
    superpunk likes this.
  7. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Effective passing defense is a necessary corollary to success in a game where rules favor offenses. You still have to pass better than the other guy to win. Keeping the other guy from passing well helps you do that. There's no getting around it, no matter how insubstantial you happen to think that obvious substance is.
  8. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    Not according to KJJ’s “facts”.

    It all about the QB and nothing but the QB.

    I mean the two turnovers the Giant’s special teams caused in the 2011 NFC Championship game couldn’t have influenced the outcome

    Something he neglected to mention in his earlier ramblings.
    superpunk likes this.
  9. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    On a completely unrelated note, I heard the rules of the coin toss have been changed to favor 'heads,' making 'tails' completely unimportant.
    ABQCOWBOY likes this.
  10. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    Nice one!
  11. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    I never said an effective pass defense isn't necessary that's just the take some of you have gotten. Playing good defense isn't just about defending the pass you also have to defend the run which the Cowboys couldn't in week 17 last season. The facts are it's become much more difficult to defend the pass today than it was years ago which is why we see so much passing today. The yards QB's are passing for and their overall stats show where the game is today. Everything has been bent to help the QB and the passing game. Offenses are taking advantage of the rules by spreading defenses out with multiple WR/TE sets and with slot receivers who can get open quick. Receivers don't have to worry about taking certain shots because of the player safety rules. The rules have freed receivers up more while making defenders more apprehensive.

    Of the top 10 career passer rating leaders 7 are current QB's. The career passer ratings of some rather average QB's are higher than some HOF QB's due to the rules. Matt Schaub is a good QB but far from elite and his career passer rating ranks 14 all-time. The completion percentage of QB's has risen over the years. It's become more difficult to keep offenses from moving the football in the passing game. Defenses are bending but trying not to break and give up TD's. The Ravens D gave up over 300 yards passing in the SB but were very fortunate to keep SF out of the end zone in the closing seconds. SB's have gone down to the wire the past 6 years because defenses are having trouble defending the pass. We're seeing some great last ditch drives in the SB that we only saw from Joe Montana back in the day.

    There's a reason we're starting to see some low ranked defenses making it to the SB. In 07 the Pats and Giants had the 2 lowest ranked defenses to reach the SB. The NFL is an offensive league and although defense is very important it's about getting takeaways. Hard to defend a play like the one to Tyree in the SB back in 07 so defenses have to get takeaways. Regardless of your defensive ranking you're going to have issues if you can't take the ball away. The Packers D ranked #32 in 2011 but GB went 15-1 due to their defense creating turnovers and with their MVP QB throwing TD's and not coughing the ball up. The Cowboys issues boil down to not creating turnovers and giving the ball up a lot on offense.
  12. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    I wonder which is more important.
    Idgit likes this.
  13. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    something is off when the 2 SB QB avg less that 250 yards a game passing. Kaepernic only avg 139 yards a game and Flacco only avg 238 yards a game. Mean time Romo avg 306 yards per game, there must be something they are doing that we did not? Naw... lol
  14. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    That's according you because you have an agenda. Who said the 2 turnovers by the Giants special teams didn't influence the outcome? Had Alex Smith completed more than 47% of his passes and performed like he did the week before vs NO the 49ers may have been able to overcome those 2 turnovers. SF still made to OT where they went 3 downs an out on their only possession.
  15. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

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    Romo sucks, dude, get over it! He is the only one holding the team back, the defense has nothing to do with, nor do penalties, special teams, or the bounce of the ball.

    It's Romo and if you FANS cannot grasp that then I don't know what to tell you other than you are blaming others for Romo losing games for the Cowboys that you FANS like to root for. The facts have been presented to you FANS over and over, In fact, the same thing has been repeated over and over and over and if you FANS would understand that Romo is the problem then you FANS know nothing about football! lol

    Carry on, and have a great day.
  16. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Both are equally important but if you're QB keeps giving the ball back it can neutralize some of the turnovers your defense is creating. The key to the Packers 15-1 season in 2011 was their defense created turnovers and Rodgers TD to turnover ratio was 46-6. His only multiple turnover game occurred in the playoffs and those turnovers coupled with the Packers D not creating any resulted in the loss. The Giants and Eli not only moved the ball that day but got it in the end zone several times.
  17. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    ok its like I figured....you're arguing just to argue and you can't even keep up with your own positions.
    5Stars likes this.
  18. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

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    Oh snap...!

    lmao
  19. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    That was during the regular season. Kaepernick was doing some of his damage with his legs. He put up 415 yards and 5 TD's rushing plus he was efficient when he passed the ball only tossing 3 int's compared to 10 TD passes. He accounted for 15 TD's rushing and receiving during the regular season. In the playoffs he put up almost 800 yards passing and 264 yards rushing. His TD to turnover ratio both passing and rushing was 7-2 during the post season. Flacco only tossed 10 int's during the regular season and his defense created some turnovers. The last time Romo tossed 10 int's during the regular season it led to an 11-5 record, a division title and a playoff win. I already covered it's not all about passing yards.
  20. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    That's gonna leave a mark.
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