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Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Crown Royal, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you know how many troops we currently have in Afghanistan? Do you know that there is fighting going on in Pakistan right now?

    In truth, we have been fighting this war for a very long time. We just haven't declared it as such until Iraq, part 2.
  2. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    All I've said so far is just get Bin Laden first.

    WAY before we should have EVER went after Saddam.

    I really don't see what the problem with that is.

    Except if you've let the man run free for six years and never mention his name anymore like Bush.

    That may not solve all the U.S. problems..but it'll get a Major one out of the way.
  3. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    How's it coming along? Does the progress we've made during this protracted time frame of yours justify "maintaining the course"?

    Even though I didn't vote for him, I think Kerry was right in initially suggesting that terrorism was a police matter. I suspect this war will go like so many other wars (war on poverty, war on drugs, etc.). Maybe it's time for a different metaphor when thinking of solutions to our problems. "War" doesn't seem to be working too well.
  4. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think you have to ask the question, "What would failure represent?"

    I don't believe that the average American would look at it and call it a success. In truth, I don't know that I would either. The problem here, IMO, is that there is no real decisive course of action that can be taken here. I am a firm believe that if you don't keep the pressure on, they will strike back in the way that hurts the most. I just believe that. I further believe that no response is an invitation for continued strikes. The problem here is that Terrorisam is an attempt to achieve publicity. How do you prevent Terrorists from attacking a country with 24x7 media attention that reaches out across the globe to every nation in the world? I don't believe our country has an effective way in which to combat this problem. In truth, it goes far beyond Bush or even Clinton. This is the Red Herrin nobody has wanted to talk about for 30 years.

    It's a problem that can only be solved by solving the worlds hunger problems. Solving the worlds poverty, if you will. It is an extremely complex issue that, in and of itself, can constitute an extensive thread of it's own. You introduce Bush, American political landscape and the War in the Middle East and that just adds to it. Terrorisam, in and of itself is a much more complex issue. I don't believe that Police can combat it because they are at the mercy of the terrorist. They must wait till something happens before they can do anything at all. Terrorists must be fought aggresively. Unless it's a World Police Agency, I don't see how they can be effective. Change may be in order, your right, but what change? This is the question every President since Nixon has been struggling with and probably before that. It is not an easy answer, to be sure.
  5. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    This is where you and I disagree. I think you have to secure the borders first. Then you can go after whoever you want. Securing the borders should have happened before any military action. And I'm not only talking about the north and south borders. I'm talking about the east, west and vertical borders. Can you imagine Tony Romo trying to complete any passes without a left or right tackle at the line of scrimmage? We'd be down to our 4th string QB 10 minutes into the game.
  6. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    I agree with you. Please share your heartfelt beliefs with the true-believers. Maybe they will listen someday.
  7. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    I dont think Terrorism is nearly as big of an issue as Jihad. Terrorism is easy to defeat. Jihad is almost impossible to defeat in a politically correct society.
  8. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    I guess we have no choice but to annihilate their entire societies then. The Raytheons of the world will be so happy. :)
  9. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    So many documents are labeled by the U.S. government as "hate speech" and banned. IMHO, the Qur'an should be edited to get rid of everything that's hate filled (and that also goes for any hate filled religious text). Then the "secular" or "moderate" Muslims as you call them will be the majority within the U.S. Islamic population 4-5 generations from now and we'll really have no problem. They'll actually get to live in peace and be the welcomed face of Islam. The alternative is to get fitted for a burka or a coffin.
  10. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    If we did that would we also have to remove any "hate" speech in ANY of the other books of faith for all religions? If so that would not leave many books of faith in tact.

    How about we also start a bonfire and throw the constitution into it as well?
  11. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    what hate is in the constitution that hasn't been amended?
  12. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    What I mean by throwing in the constitution, and I SHOULD have said the bill of rights, is the idea that if you start with taking away freedom of religion, start censoring things you do not like, you might as well just throw it all in a bonfire because we have lost our way.

    I just don't agree with you in general...and that is coming from someone who has in the past, multiple times, has said the world might be a better place if we get rid of all religion.
  13. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    Freedom of speech ends when you yell "fire" in a crowded theater. There are hundreds of shouts of "fire" in the Qur'an. By like I said ad nauseum, don't take my word for it. Pick up a copy of the Qur'an and read for yourself.

    Organized religion is the cause of most wars throughout history, and right now Islam leads the pack. The problem is that the constitution is a living breathing document that can and will always change with the times (that's a good thing). The Qur'an is unchangable. I wish it was, but it's not.

    How about this: next time you're at a shopping mall and see a Muslim who does not look religious, ask them if a true-believer will even hesitate to kill them and why. I think you'll be surprised by the answer coming from the mouth of a "Muslim."
  14. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    Why even bother fighting if you're willing to surrender our fundamental rights and liberties in the process? (Don't make me break out the Franklin quote that someone has already posted in one of these threads. :))

    I'm sure it's unintentional, but at times you sound more interested in victory at all costs (which is really a defeat) rather than a victory that preserves our essential way of life.
  15. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    I think you are missing my point.

    Do you suggest we also remove parts of the christian/jewish bible? I mean their are parts that order the followers to kill all living things in some villages.

    Should we take any religion and remove parts from it's book of faith. If so you are treading on a line I don't think you really want to tread on. IMO it is flat out wrong and I DON'T like most organized religions.

    To be honest I don't need to go ask a muslim his beliefs to know that removing a part of someones book of faith would not be a good idea at all. It would only encite more hatred than their already is and I guarantee you if someone came along and tried to remove parts of a christian or jewish bible it would not fly either.
  16. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    I am thinking along the same lines as you are here.

    It just goes flat against everything the great founders of this nation hoped to achieve.

    In many ways the type of mentality to do those types of things is a signal to the terrorists that they are winning their war.
  17. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    you're 100% right. It's a very slipperly slope. I'm personally against banning anything. If someone has a better solution to stopping global Jihad, I'm all ears. Seriously.

    I sometimes get the sense that I just watched a Cowboys-Eagles game at the stadium, got home to discuss it, but nobody else saw they game. They just caught little snippets of the game from an Eagles bulletin board. With all due respect to everyone on CZ, it's impossible for someone to properly discuss or appreciate something they never read.
  18. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    they are winning....
  19. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    First, we round up all the neocons, and intern them in Gulags... I hear Gitmo will be available soon, but we'll probably have to double up in the cells... :cool:
  20. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    Yes...because we have already given up some of our liberties in more ways than one.

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