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Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Crown Royal, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    If we had the troops currently in Iraq up in Afghanistan, we would have long ago wiped out the Taliban and al-Qaida...
  2. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    No...round up the majority of politicians on the hill, with very few exceptions...not just the neocons.

    Many dems are just as guilty of letting this get so far out of hand.
  3. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    the Rush Limbaugh neocons and the Michael Moore socialists. :cool:
  4. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    The only way to accomplish what CowboyJeff advocates re: locking down our border is to convert to a police state... of course, if we do that, the terrorists have won...
  5. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    Pretty much every other country locks down their borders, and they are not police states. Why should we be any different?
  6. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    Well, the whole idea of a war against terror is absurd unless you're going to bring all the necessary resources to bear in pursuit of victory. As a nation, we're unwilling to commit to that degree, not least because it's immoral to subject an entire civilian population to the horrors of all out war when you're after only a handful of people, so we should probably just turn it over to law enforcement as we should have done in the first place. It's not as sexy, sensational, or worthy of special news reports with cool cross hair graphics but it's probably the most economical and politically shrewd way to combat the problem while simultaneously increasing our diplomatic and homeland security efforts.
  7. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    OK, that works for me...

    See there, I'm NOT unreasonable... :rolleyes:
  8. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    Those countries have much smaller borders... those that have borders as extensive as ours are and attempt to lock them down seem to be pretty much police states...

    I sympathize with your intent, but see no way to apply it without altering who we are as a nation in the most fundamental way... I'm reluctant in the extremest to make that tradeoff...
  9. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    I couldn't agree more... and of course, the final measure of how intelligent a poster is, is how often I agree with him... :)
  10. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    There's a couple of problems with this, although your approach is well intentioned:

    1) Americans are too impatient. We want problems solved like we see in a 1 hour docu-drama on TV. The days of a 5-10 year battle are over. The Jihadists, however, have nothing but time on their hands. It's a generational thing to them. They have no problem being patient and waiting 5, 10, 50, 100, 200 years to accomplish what they want. That's one reason why we havent seen another 9/11 type attack on American soil....yet......they do a much better job of not rushing into things like we do.

    2) You cant turn everything over to law enforcement without giving law enforcement all the tools to do their jobs, including profiling and the Patriot Act. Law enforcement has to live within the constraints of Federal Law. Our military lives within the rules of engagement. Although, sometimes the rules of engagement are more constraining.

    3) The terminology "War On Terror" is so stupid and misleading. Terror is very broad and can mean really anything. My Homeowners Association is terrorizing me by citing me on not cutting my grass. The guy outside is terrorizing me when I walk through his ring of cigarette smoke. The guy who gets tazered by a police officer can claim he was terrorized by a cop. Jihad is very specific and very clear. "War On Jihad" should be the proper terminology, IMHO.

    4) define "handful." I have no idea why you think we are only after a "handful" of people. Perhaps you are referring to Leonard Davis-sized hands? :)
  11. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    So your solution is to keep the borders as they are, allow the Qur'an in its present form to thrive in the U.S., let anyone come and go in and out of this country as they please, eliminate the Patriot Act, stop the monitoring of mosques, eliminate Guantanamo, and bring all our troops home immediately? That sounds exactly like what the Jihadists and bin Laden want. I fail to see how that will stop a future attack. I think it will make it much easier to launch an attack much sooner on U.S. soil. No matter what we would likely do in your scenario or the Bush administration, we are only buying time against the next attack. It's not a question of if, but when the next attack will happen.
  12. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    actually, we need both the Limbaughs and the Moores of the world to stimulate debate and get us thinking. Love them or hate them, they both serve a purpose. When only one side exists and people agree on everything, only one person is doing the thinking.

    I love playing devil's advocate :chop:
  13. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Honestly, I don't think so. Two issues here. The first is, how do you support that level of troop concentration in Afghanistan? I have been to Afghanistan. To term it as inhospitable in many areas is an understatement.

    The second would be that Al Qaeda has proven to be to be very resourceful in this area. They can, do and have pulled up stakes and relocated to other parts of the world very rapidly when threatened by direct force. It's a tough thing to pin down. I'm not certain how you do it without the cooperation of the world community.
  14. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    First order of business is to dispense with the idea that we can have a 100% success rate in preventing terrorist attacks on US soil, although we can take steps to reduce their probability. Second, we have to understand that provocation is one of the terrorists principal weapons and temper our responses to successful attacks, so we don't exacerbate the problem as we have with invasion of Iraq.
  15. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    From this point forward, a 99.9% success rate can mean 15 major U.S. cities are nuked.
  16. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    Did I mention that we should also focus our attention on PROBABLE kinds of terrorist attacks instead of apocalyptic doomsday scenarios? :)

    There are so many things involved in combating the problem of extremist violence than just ideology or banning a book. We could take a more active role in nuclear disarmament and disarmament in general, for instance, instead of allowing our desire for profit to blind us to the security concerns of shipping weapons around the world.
  17. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    Jihad is an ideology. Downplaying it as a small "handful" of fringe crazies is like chopping down a weed by just cutting off the tip. It'll keep growing back week after week. You have to uproot the weed, one weed at a time.
  18. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    On second thought - we need to completely eliminate our country's need for fossil fuel. Have a Manhattan-like project to get machines to run on things like garbage and banana peels (like Back To The Future 2). That will cut the cycle of us financing a lot of what goes on in the middle east. Once that money dries up, they'll come begging us for help. It's sad that in thirty years, 3 Republican and 2 Democratic Presidents have yet to do this.
  19. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    Perhaps as Mr. Paul suggested at a recent debate the weed is spreading in part because of a short-sighted and disastrous foreign policy that fuels anger towards our country?

    The Qu'aran has been around for a long time, but the phenomenon of international jihad with the US as its principal target is a relatively recent one, suggesting that maybe the problem goes beyond the contents of the book, such as the emergence of a political context where a certain extremist interpretation of the Qu'aran finds a more accepting audience than in the past.
  20. CowboyJeff

    CowboyJeff New Member

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    The U.S. has only been around for 200 years with international aeronautical travel even more recent. The policy-jihad relationship is merely coincidental. There is no extremist interpretation of the Qur'an. It's word-for-word or nothing. Glad to see you also disagree with a verbatim following of the Qur'an.

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