Video: Colin Cowherd: “The Philly game hurt Dak’s value”

[Northern_Cowboy]

But very few people (if any) are just going to look at the first list and see it as a list of the best QB in football. You're basically ignoring the second list in order to make a point that's already obvious anyway.

What did you think the second list was for?

Listen all i was doing was commenting on the stat itself and how it was really a useless stat, your debating with me for no reason i grant you your point

 

[percyhoward]

Listen all i was doing was commenting on the stat itself and how it was really a useless stat...

This should be easier to understand. It's the Top 10 in YPA without play action among all QB in 2019, including postseason:

Mahomes 8.3
Prescott 8.0
Carr 7.9
Jackson 7.8
Brees 7.6
Wilson 7.6
Watson 7.6
Cousins 7.4
Winston 7.4
Stafford 7.3

 

[erod]

This should be easier to understand. It's the Top 10 in YPA without play action among all QB in 2019, including postseason:

Mahomes 8.3
Prescott 8.0
Carr 7.9
Jackson 7.8
Brees 7.6
Wilson 7.6
Watson 7.6
Cousins 7.4
Winston 7.4
Stafford 7.3

Now subtract garbage time and only include completions.

 

[percyhoward]

Now subtract garbage time and only include completions.

Define garbage time and I'll look it up for you, but that would be based on all attempts -- not just non-play-action attempts. That data isn't available to the public.

I can tell you that without play action, Prescott's YPA ranks 2nd only to Mahomes since the trade for Cooper in week 8 of 2018. That's 27 games for Dak.

 

[Galian Beast]

I'm not sure how anyone can argue with anything that was said here.

Somehow people here think teams get cheaper over time, they don't. Dak may improve marginally in the next few years, but his pay would be going through the roof and it comes out with less talent around him as a result, meaning this team is going to get worse as it gets more expensive.

It's better to maximize his value now by trading him. In reality, they should have started Romo when he was healthy and then traded Dak away for picks after the year he had.

 

[HungryLion]

I'm not sure how anyone can argue with anything that was said here.

Somehow people here think teams get cheaper over time, they don't. Dak may improve marginally in the next few years, but his pay would be going through the roof and it comes out with less talent around him as a result, meaning this team is going to get worse as it gets more expensive.

It's better to maximize his value now by trading him. In reality, they should have started Romo when he was healthy and then traded Dak away for picks after the year he had.

And if they had done that, who knows who the cowboys QB would be. They could have garbage at the position right now.

 

[Galian Beast]

And if they had done that, who knows who the cowboys QB would be. They could have garbage at the position right now.

And they could have won a championship between then and now. At least Garrett is gone though, so that's a plus.

 

[Northern_Cowboy]

Define garbage time and I'll look it up for you, but that would be based on all attempts -- not just non-play-action attempts. That data isn't available to the public.

I can tell you that without play action, Prescott's YPA ranks 2nd only to Mahomes since the trade for Cooper in week 8 of 2018. That's 27 games for Dak.

So based on that information would you consider Dak a better overall QB than Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes etc? because if you don't than the stat taken on it's own is really useless and means nothing if it's not considered in context with all other QB stats, which is the point i made earlier it's a useless stat on it's own even if it states Dak was decent at YPA in play action passes or not in play action passing attempt

 

[tyke1doe]

tyke --imagine had there not been the start of "free agency" and Johnson had not left....i bet 5 or 6 lombardi's from that group..?

I agree. The Niners couldn't beat the Cowboys when Jimmy Johnson was coaching. Neither could the Packers.

 

[HungryLion]

And they could have won a championship between then and now. At least Garrett is gone though, so that's a plus.

And there is zero guarantee they win a championship with Romo as QB. The hypothetical is pointless.

 

[Alexander]

Just be honest. It did.

 

[Qcard]

No, you don't got it. When a QB's YPA on play-action passes ranks among the top of the league, that can skew his overall YPA. So one of the biggest red flags in predicting a QB's future performance is the differential in his average with play action vs. without.

Top 12 QB in YPA with play action
differential over passes without play action
Mariota +6.2
Tannehill +5.6
Stafford +4.7
Winston +4.5
Minshew + 4.3
Garoppolo +3.6
Mayfield +2.8
Rivers +2.4
Cousins +2.3
Wilson +2.0
Watson + 1.7
Prescott +0.9

Differences of +3 yards or more aren't sustainable.

Oh my dropping science... So in layman's one could say Dak's pass game doesn't fall off when without play action?

 

[atlantacowboy]

Dak is going to ask for his top dollar price b/c he knows the Cowboys have left themselves with no options. Right now, Dak has all the leverage. If Dallas was smart, and its a rarity, they would go sign a capable QB in free agency. I just hope Jerry isn't going to assume Dak is playing on a franchise tag.

 

[percyhoward]

So based on that information would you consider Dak a better overall QB than Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes etc? because if you don't than the stat taken on it's own is really useless and means nothing if it's not considered in context with all other QB stats, which is the point i made earlier it's a useless stat on it's own even if it states Dak was decent at YPA in play action passes or not in play action passing attempt

If you want to compare Prescott straight up against the league, there are plenty of useful metrics. That hardly makes the information that I posted "useless" though. Again, differentials higher than +3.0 aren't sustainable, so it's a way of digging a little deeper to predict future performance. (In 2012, RG3 was 2nd in overall YPA, but his play-action YPA was +6.0 yards vs without play action) So, the opposite of useless.

What information do you use when you form your opinions of QB?

 

[Northern_Cowboy]

I use all information (including the YPA stat) available to me to form my opinion but not any singe stat on it's own, doing that in my opinion does not give you a clear picture of what a QB is doing or is able to do you must use all stats in conjunction with one another to form an opinion

 

[percyhoward]

Now subtract garbage time and only include completions.

Since you didn't care to define "garbage time," here's Prescott when the game is close, in the 27 games since the Cooper trade:

margin one score or less
482 of 709 68% 5574 yd 7.9 ypa 37 td 11 int 102.4

margin > one score
176 of 272 65% 2288 yd 8.4 ypa 9 td 5 int 94.4

His numbers when the game is close are actually brought down by the other attempts.

 

[percyhoward]

Oh my dropping science... So in layman's one could say Dak's pass game doesn't fall off when without play action?

Clear you cards, we have a bingo.

 

[erod]

Since you didn't care to define "garbage time," here's Prescott when the game is close, in the 27 games since the Cooper trade:

margin one score or less
482 of 709 68% 5574 yd 7.9 ypa 37 td 11 int 102.4

margin > one score
176 of 272 65% 2288 yd 8.4 ypa 9 td 5 int 94.4

His numbers when the game is close are actually brought down by the other attempts.

I've heard VERY different numbers on this than what you have from the likes of Broaddus and others. And you know what I think about "numbers."

Dak got severely outplayed by Trubisky, Allen, Darnold, and others last year during non-garbage time. In the most important game of the season, he couldn't manage a lousy touchdown against a terrible Eagles defense. He's a middling ride-along quarterback. Nothing more.

 

[percyhoward]

I've heard VERY different numbers on this than what you have from the likes of Broaddus and others.

So post them. The ones I posted are from profootballreferece.com.

But don't take my word for it. Open the links below:

margin one score or less
2018
2019

 

[GORICO]

I agree. The Niners couldn't beat the Cowboys when Jimmy Johnson was coaching. Neither could the Packers.

Johnson had this team ready everytime....coach clap seemed to always have this team unprepared....players were not afraid of losing or making mistakes...because they would just get a good clap