Chiefs ban headdresses at Arrowhead Stadium as part of new policies

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DandyDon52

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Once you allow that first domino to fall, everything else falls soon after.
Not surprised, but it's ridiculous.
yes much like appeasement with hitler, give him one country, he wants another one.
What I dont get is why everyone cowers to the politically correct crowd ?? They dont have any power except what other people give them.
 

Flamma

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yes much like appeasement with hitler, give him one country, he wants another one.
What I dont get is why everyone cowers to the politically correct crowd ?? They dont have any power except what other people give them.

I just don't get their reasoning. I know there is a crowd out there that wants to feel like they have some power to make up for their otherwise useless lives, and that's why they do it, I just fail to see their point.

It's not just Commanders, it's everything Native American related. The chop, the chant, or dressing up like a Native American has been under attack for several decades now. This isn't new. My question is why?
 

DandyDon52

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I just don't get their reasoning. I know there is a crowd out there that wants to feel like they have some power to make up for their otherwise useless lives, and that's why they do it, I just fail to see their point.

It's not just Commanders, it's everything Native American related. The chop, the chant, or dressing up like a Native American has been under attack for several decades now. This isn't new. My question is why?


That is a good question.
Part of the problem is the media fuels all this PC stuff, and that is partly for ratings, and partly for who works in the media.
Hollywood also fuels PC stuff and other issues.
Tv shows fuels PC stuff and other issues.
Now it is out of control, and to the point a sports team had to change the name they had for almost 100 years, and it really wasnt offensive.

The Chiefs are now doing damage control so they dont have to change their name lol.
 

Flamma

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That is a good question.
Part of the problem is the media fuels all this PC stuff, and that is partly for ratings, and partly for who works in the media.
Hollywood also fuels PC stuff and other issues.
Tv shows fuels PC stuff and other issues.
Now it is out of control, and to the point a sports team had to change the name they had for almost 100 years, and it really wasnt offensive.

The Chiefs are now doing damage control so they dont have to change their name lol.


The question I am trying to ask is what is offensive? Why is the chant offensive? Why is the chop offensive? Why is the Native American theme offensive? Are Native Americans embarrassed by this history? I don't think so. So why?
 

CalPolyTechnique

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The question I am trying to ask is what is offensive? Why is the chant offensive? Why is the chop offensive? Why is the Native American theme offensive? Are Native Americans embarrassed by this history? I don't think so. So why?

Imagine if somehow there was a team named the Florida Tribalmen which used a generic caricature of an African tribesman as a mascot. You have fans wearing fake sticks in their noses, plates in their lips, et cetera, imitating (in their minds) what an African tribesman looks like and acts. Oh, and by the way, a “war cry” is created that goes “ooogah boogah boogah!!!”

Secondly, do you really believe the “war chant” that’s sung along at football and baseball games is sourced from a real one, lol?

Thirdly, you’re lumping all tribes into one generic “Native American” group? What does the Chumash in California have to do with the Seminole in Florida? Like “hey we’re making a generic caricature of the Seminoles here so it should represent all the other tribes across the country too.”
 
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Flamma

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Imagine if somehow there was a team named the Florida Tribalmen which used a generic caricature of an African tribesman as a mascot. You have fans wearing fake sticks in their noses, plates in their lips, et cetera, imitating (in their minds) what an African tribesman looks like and acts. Oh, and by the way, a “war cry” is created that goes “ooogah boogah boogah!!!”

The thing is, no one would do that. No one dresses up or presents themselves for the sole purpose of embarrassing themselves. Dressing up as a Viking, would you consider that equal to your example? Is the Native American culture from the past somehow embarrassing? Because that's the only way I see it being offensive. Your example is a representation of uneducated savages. Who would want to emulate them? No one. Can that be compared to the Native American representation we see today? I don't think so.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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The thing is, no one would do that. No one dresses up or presents themselves for the sole purpose of embarrassing themselves. Dressing up as a Viking, would you consider that equal to your example? Is the Native American culture from the past somehow embarrassing? Because that's the only way I see it being offensive. Your example is a representation of uneducated savages. Who would want to emulate them? No one. Can that be compared to the Native American representation we see today? I don't think so.

What specific “Native American” culture are you referencing? You keep referencing it generically as if any given aspect can be applied to all tribes across the country. That’s precisely part of the problem.

What’s embarrassing is having people attempt to emulate a generic caricaturization of what an “Indian” is. And are you kidding me trying to make the distinction with my example of the Florida Tribesmen? When this country was conquered the indigenous people were referred to as “savages” or are you not aware of that?

C76-B5-ABD-4972-4-D30-8-D68-DDAB47-C4-A7-D9.jpg


7-A2-F8-BD9-DC11-4-DFD-81-C9-25-F9672587-A6.jpg
 
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Flamma

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C76-B5-ABD-4972-4-D30-8-D68-DDAB47-C4-A7-D9.jpg


What specific “Native American” culture are you referencing? You keep referencing it generically as if any given aspect can be applied to all tribes across the country. This is part of the problem.

What’s embarrassing is having people attempt to emulate a generic caricaturization of what an “Indian” is. And are you kidding me trying to make the distinction with my example of the Florida Tribesmen? When this country was conquered the indigenous people were referred to as “savages” or are you not aware of that?

C76-B5-ABD-4972-4-D30-8-D68-DDAB47-C4-A7-D9.jpg


7-A2-F8-BD9-DC11-4-DFD-81-C9-25-F9672587-A6.jpg

I am aware of that. That doesn't mean they were. The Romans were once called savages too.
 

DandyDon52

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Imagine if somehow there was a team named the Florida Tribalmen which used a generic caricature of an African tribesman as a mascot. You have fans wearing fake sticks in their noses, plates in their lips, et cetera, imitating (in their minds) what an African tribesman looks like and acts. Oh, and by the way, a “war cry” is created that goes “ooogah boogah boogah!!!”

Secondly, do you really believe the “war chant” that’s sung along at football and baseball games is sourced from a real one, lol?

Thirdly, you’re lumping all tribes into one generic “Native American” group? What does the Chumash in California have to do with the Seminole in Florida? Like “hey we’re making a generic caricature of the Seminoles here so it should represent all the other tribes across the country too.”
you make some good points,but this logo and theme was made in the 1930's , and was never meant to be offensive.
In fact in was chosen because Commanders/ indians were known to be tough fearless warriors, which is really a sign of respect for them in general.
Back then teams wanted a tough type mascot, so all it was saying is indians were tough and warriors, and so are we.

Now what fans do with that is another story, as in your pictures u posted.
Football isnt a history lesson lol it is just a game with mascots.

Now if wash was a new team just coming into the league and wanted to use Commanders I can go along with saying no to that, but the
name has been there for almost a 100 years and making them change the name or the chiefs now being afraid of same thing happening to them
is ridiculous.
This world will never be perfect or ideal and changing things like this isnt going to help anyone.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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you make some good points,but this logo and theme was made in the 1930's , and was never meant to be offensive.
In fact in was chosen because Commanders/ indians were known to be tough fearless warriors, which is really a sign of respect for them in general.
Back then teams wanted a tough type mascot, so all it was saying is indians were tough and warriors, and so are we.

Now what fans do with that is another story, as in your pictures u posted.
Football isnt a history lesson lol it is just a game with mascots.

Now if wash was a new team just coming into the league and wanted to use Commanders I can go along with saying no to that, but the
name has been there for almost a 100 years and making them change the name or the chiefs now being afraid of same thing happening to them
is ridiculous.
This world will never be perfect or ideal and changing things like this isnt going to help anyone.

I don’t think Kansas City is thinking of changing the name of the team. The article posted had to do with banning generic Native American headdress and other related caricatures.
 

jrumann59

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Its an example of taking todays sensitivities and applying them retroactively to a period of time that those sensibilities were created and attaching a negative thought processes to to them. Whether its Aunt Jemima, Uncle Bens, etc. If one looks for offensive things they will usually find them. What is odd many of the stereotypes present today were pushed by Hollywood in yesteryear. Should people treat others with respect yes but only as much as those other people reciprocate. This is just an extreme over correction that the PC or cultural misappropriation movement has caused.
 

DandyDon52

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I don’t think Kansas City is thinking of changing the name of the team. The article posted had to do with banning generic Native American headdress and other related caricatures.
Well they are not wanting to, neither did the Commanders, but KC is changing policys on what fans can do at stadium, and other things
designed to be non offensive, because they want to keep their name.

Just a side note, whenever I said or heard Commanders, talking about the team, I never thought of Indians, it was just their name.
I think now they should have kept that name, and just got rid of all indian logos and told fans no indian costumes or paint allowed.
Except for red paint on skin, hence Commanders. meaning they could wear the red paint but nothing else that could be seen as indian.
Then announce publicly that the term Commander no longer refers to indians in any way.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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Well they are not wanting to, neither did the Commanders, but KC is changing policys on what fans can do at stadium, and other things
designed to be non offensive, because they want to keep their name.

Just a side note, whenever I said or heard Commanders, talking about the team, I never thought of Indians, it was just their name.
I think now they should have kept that name, and just got rid of all indian logos and told fans no indian costumes or paint allowed.
Except for red paint on skin, hence Commanders. meaning they could wear the red paint but nothing else that could be seen as indian.
Then announce publicly that the term Commander no longer refers to indians in any way.

I think Chiefs and Commanders is apples-to-oranges in terms of offensive names.

A Chief is a distinguished person within a tribe. A Commander is an oversimplified description of a people. Anytime you boil down and try to describe an entire group of people with one particular aspect it’s going to be problematic.
 

AbeBeta

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Its an example of taking todays sensitivities and applying them retroactively to a period of time that those sensibilities were created and attaching a negative thought processes to to them. Whether its Aunt Jemima, Uncle Bens, etc. If one looks for offensive things they will usually find them. What is odd many of the stereotypes present today were pushed by Hollywood in yesteryear. Should people treat others with respect yes but only as much as those other people reciprocate. This is just an extreme over correction that the PC or cultural misappropriation movement has caused.

What a dumb post.

"It wasn't offensive then!"

Things change. We grow and get better.

Ignorant ** to just dismiss it as PC. We've moved beyond this crap that played centuries ago.
 

jrumann59

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What a dumb post.

"It wasn't offensive then!"

Things change. We grow and get better.

Ignorant ** to just dismiss it as PC. We've moved beyond this crap that played centuries ago.
Ok Francis...
 

InTheZone

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Well you’re not an Indian so how would you know?
It's this kind of response that speaks for an entire crowd while assuming they all think alike, completely dismissing the origins of the name along with discriminating against those people. There's a term for that the pc crowd loves to overuse these days.

I suggest anyone that wants to argue for the pc crowd in any manner to simply understand some details prior to giving an opinion.
 

InTheZone

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What a dumb post.

"It wasn't offensive then!"

Things change. We grow and get better.

Ignorant ** to just dismiss it as PC. We've moved beyond this crap that played centuries ago.
You"re assuming its offensive, the problem starts with you and anyone that thinks a race is "one think". Somehow some of you people are for things that go 100% against what you preach.
 

Rockport

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It's this kind of response that speaks for an entire crowd while assuming they all think alike, completely dismissing the origins of the name along with discriminating against those people. There's a term for that the pc crowd loves to overuse these days.

I suggest anyone that wants to argue for the pc crowd in any manner to simply understand some details prior to giving an opinion.
Nothing to do with PC, it’s just the truth. The fact you’re too ignorant to understand is your problem not anyone else’s.
 

InTheZone

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Nothing to do with PC, it’s just the truth. The fact you’re too ignorant to understand is your problem not anyone else’s.
I didnt call you names, I critiqued your generalization, but somehow your argument now is to insult me and say you spoke truth? When exactly did this happen in your last response?
 
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