What if the Cowboys had waited? And another what if

Sarge

Red, White and Brew...
Staff member
Messages
33,410
Reaction score
30,740
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
If the the offense is based on a smash mouth running game and the whole offense is built around a great offensive line , a great RB and controlling the football, there is nothing wrong with drafting a RB with the 4th pick. Emmitt would have been worth the first pick considering his value to the offense. Problems came from Zeke’s big decline after signing his contract and the OL falling apart. Precontract Zeke was worth the 4th pick, but post-contract Zeke was barely worth a 4th round pick.
Not in this day and age of the passing game NFL......It’s wasted $.
 

Redball Express

All Aboard!!!
Messages
16,253
Reaction score
12,758
What’s going on? Not much, how bout you? , lol.
No worries. Your opinion on this thread is welcome. The only assurance I can give you today Red is - trust me on this...I never write anything in the bathroom.

I read a lot.

Never post.

Too busy.
:laugh::laugh::lmao::lmao::lmao2::lmao2:
 

Captain-Crash

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,052
Reaction score
32,983
Right, I see what you’re doing here...

Let me know when Garrett ever dealt with all of the following in one season:
  1. Play football in pandemic
  2. Have a season with no training camp
  3. Have expected contributors opt out on playing for a season (Olawale, Canady, etc.)
  4. Lose his starting QB (then lose the backup for multiple games)
  5. Lose a starting o-lineman in his prime (age) to retirement (Frederick)
  6. Lose his starting starting LT for the year (then lose the primary swing tackle in B. Knight)
  7. Never have his starting RT play a single snap (L. Collins)
  8. Never have their top free agent acquisition play a snap (G. McCoy)
  9. Lose another starting DT for the season (T. Hill)
  10. Lose a starting CB for significant time (Awuzie)
  11. Lose another starting CB for the year (Diggs)
  12. Lose a starting LB for a significant portion of the season (LVE)
  13. Lose their starting TE for the season (Jarwin)
You already know all this and I’m sure I’ve missed some other things that could have been listed, but you’ve ignored all that to take the opportunity to heehaw about what “mediocre coaching actually looks like” under McCarthy.

Talk about an egregious omission of context.

McCarthy may certainly not be the answer but to try and evaluate him under the circumstances he’s been saddled with this season is lame as hell.
:clap::clap::clap::hammer:
 

fivetwos

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,056
Reaction score
25,881
how bout you don't extend anyone with multiple years left on their deal.

ok, that's a little oversimplified but whole reason you like rookie deals is because they are cheap. definitely should have held his ground with Zeke. Zeke had no leverage. Now team has no leverage.
Elliott had leverage back then. His holdout would have cost Jerry that Super Bowl run.

THAT was the year!
 

TequilaCowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,193
Reaction score
7,221
Jerry is always too close to a Super Bowl in his mind to think long term.

Which is what team owners do and reason they should not be GM...a real GM is always looking behind his back know he can get fired and is looking to the present with an eye on the future.....the team's and his. but we all know this, i would say Jerry does too, but loves the attention on himself.
 

Birch_Wood

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,649
Reaction score
1,577
What if Deion was flagged for the pass interference, Dallas scored and was down by three?

What if Jerry shut his ever-lovin mouth and allowed Jimmy to take the credit and Jimmy stayed?

What if jerry pulled his head out of his Colonoscopy port and drafted Randy Moss?

What if Jackie Smith caught it?

What if Dez caught it?

What if Dallas took T.J. Watt?

What if Dallas rebuilt the offensive line and Dak comes back with a vengeance as Dallas uses the 2021 draft to fix the defense?
I love it, hahaha.
 

ghst187

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,515
Reaction score
11,351
Myles Jack cap numbers: https://overthecap.com/player/myles-jack/4749/
2020 - $15.4M
2021 - $12.1M
2022 - $13.1M
2023 - $13.9M

Jack has played in 66 career games and has 236 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 3 ints, 2 TD

Jaylon Smith cap numbers: https://overthecap.com/player/jaylon-smith/4747/
2020 - $7.7M
2021 - $9.8M
2022 - $11.8M
2023 - $13.6M
2024 - $12.6M
2025 - $12.3M

Smith has played in 57 games and has 265 tackles, 8 sacks, 6 forced fumbles, 1 int and 1 TD

Who has the better contract? I don't think either of these guys will be with their current team past 2021, maybe 2022.

nice pull! I agree neither are worth those numbers. I see the numbers but I honestly still couldn’t tell you who is better since Jaylon is out of position a lot and I don’t see Jack play bc it’s jax
 

gjkoeppen

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
3,327
I am not touting the Zeke contract as some sort of bargain, but I don’t think that contract is what is holding us back. Whether it was a foolish contract or not, that’s past history.

if you cut Zeke, you are going to eat the remainder of the prorated signing bonus. That’s a factor. How he is playing is also a factor.

Does the fact that Zeke is playing behind a junior varsity line factor into his production? I think you have to consider that, as well.



Elliott's production has dropped EVERY YEAR since his rookie season so you can't blame this year's line for that. Starting his rookie season 2016 he had 1631 yards, 2017 suspension season he had 983 yards, 2018 he had 1434 yards which is less than 2016, and 2019 he had 1357 Yards which is less than 2018 and at the present rate he won't pass last years amount. You need to stop thinking of Elliott from his rookie season and see that it's been down hill since.

His contract if he's cut as a post June 1st will add the exact same amount to the dead money next year as if they kept him and suffer another year of down production.
.
.
 

Verdict

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,960
Reaction score
20,118
Elliott's production has dropped EVERY YEAR since his rookie season so you can't blame this year's line for that. Starting his rookie season 2016 he had 1631 yards, 2017 suspension season he had 983 yards, 2018 he had 1434 yards which is less than 2016, and 2019 he had 1357 Yards which is less than 2018 and at the present rate he won't pass last years amount. You need to stop thinking of Elliott from his rookie season and see that it's been down hill since.

His contract if he's cut as a post June 1st will add the exact same amount to the dead money next year as if they kept him and suffer another year of down production.
.
.
I don’t think you will see us cut him at this point. But I guess we will find out.
 

Jfconrow

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,267
Reaction score
672
I like having a high drafted / expensive RB. If you want to draft another one in round 1 or 2 instead of paying the second contract ok, but I like a dynamic playmakers. Even if RBs have a short life. They are involved in and have contact on almost every play. Here’s another scenario:

The boys focus on the OLine and get some guys to block for Zeke instead of Taco, Cooper and Lamb. I liked the air it out plan until Dak went down and maybe he doesn’t get hurt if the Oline was better (even though he was hurt on a QB scramble- would rather have Zeke carrying the ball)
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
This is a very interesting take on holding out early.

I noticed last week when looking at the top RBs statistically after 8 games, the average age of the top 10 RBs is 23.9. Seven of those of those top ten RBs are still on their rookie deals. Zeke starts next year at 26, and is statistically showing obvious decline. Can a RB after 5 years show signs of major improvement? I can’t think of any recent example.
Me neither. Some point to him getting his new contract as the decline, it started before that. The timing of that contact was all about what he knew was happening to his body.

Elliott also has had the lifestyle of a RB that thinks he's indestructible and impervious to decline. He's a bit of a party boy and his good times would not be sacrificed for his career and craft. I am not being critical of that, I would be the same way, probably worse. Hell, partying would be the reason I became a NFL RB in the first place.

He's a natural athlete and it's always come easy to him as it does for a lot of them. He either didn't care or understand what it would take to keep himself in that same shape he was in when he was a rookie. He lost a step and in his business, that means more hits. Got that fumbling rep, more hits.

He's no longer feared to take it in anywhere on the field. When a RB doesn't have that fear instilled in a DC and D, different game plan.
 

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
16,412
Reaction score
62,474
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Me neither. Some point to him getting his new contract as the decline, it started before that. The timing of that contact was all about what he knew was happening to his body.

Elliott also has had the lifestyle of a RB that thinks he's indestructible and impervious to decline. He's a bit of a party boy and his good times would not be sacrificed for his career and craft. I am not being critical of that, I would be the same way, probably worse. Hell, partying would be the reason I became a NFL RB in the first place.

He's a natural athlete and it's always come easy to him as it does for a lot of them. He either didn't care or understand what it would take to keep himself in that same shape he was in when he was a rookie. He lost a step and in his business, that means more hits. Got that fumbling rep, more hits.

He's no longer feared to take it in anywhere on the field. When a RB doesn't have that fear instilled in a DC and D, different game plan.
Your last paragraph sums up the cold truth for the Cowboys. They are paying premium dollars and cap space for a player that no longer instills any fear in the hearts of defenses.

I know many fellow fans here feel that cutting Zeke at the end of the year is too much of a cap hit/dead money. I would argue that it would actually give the organization some hope and flexibility. They may be able to draft a good RB in rounds 2-4 that along with Pollard perhaps improve the running game at a much cheaper price.

But I also realize that will never happen. Because this owner is married to his GM. And the owner doesn’t want to admit that the GM he’s married to doesn’t know what he’s doing. Or worse, has no real urgency to learn from his mistakes.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Your last paragraph sums up the cold truth for the Cowboys. They are paying premium dollars and cap space for a player that no longer instills any fear in the hearts of defenses.

I know many fellow fans here feel that cutting Zeke at the end of the year is too much of a cap hit/dead money. I would argue that it would actually give the organization some hope and flexibility. They may be able to draft a good RB in rounds 2-4 that along with Pollard perhaps improve the running game at a much cheaper price.

But I also realize that will never happen. Because this owner is married to his GM. And the owner doesn’t want to admit that the GM he’s married to doesn’t know what he’s doing. Or worse, has no real urgency to learn from his mistakes.
First he goes against the grain taking a RB with the 4th pick and then extends him 2 years before the contract is up. He's in neck deep with Elliott.

Truth be told, McC and Moore might prefer starting Pollard over Elliott but that's not happening.
 

cowboygo

Well-Known Member
Messages
852
Reaction score
1,063
Me either but I was on the DC.com board and we were pretty split on Zeke or Ramsey then Henry in the 2nd. Pre draft there were also Bosa fans but that turned out to be moot. We still have debates on Zeke, Ramsey and Henry on this board though.
yup, but Zeke was a Romo pick. Had we known we'd be losing him, I believe it would have been unanimously Ramsey.
 

Aviano90

Go Seahawks!!!
Messages
16,758
Reaction score
24,485
yup, but Zeke was a Romo pick. Had we known we'd be losing him, I believe it would have been unanimously Ramsey.
And I never understood why Romo needed Zeke when everyone was crying his entire career that he never had a defense. Still doesn't even make sense to me to this day.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
And I never understood why Romo needed Zeke when everyone was crying his entire career that he never had a defense. Still doesn't even make sense to me to this day.
The sell was besides being a great RB, he was the most proficient blocker coming out of college that scouts could recall, a stumbling block to most rookie backs. Meyer said he was the best player without the ball he'd ever seen.
 

Aviano90

Go Seahawks!!!
Messages
16,758
Reaction score
24,485
The sell was besides being a great RB, he was the most proficient blocker coming out of college that scouts could recall, a stumbling block to most rookie backs. Meyer said he was the best player without the ball he'd ever seen.
One of the best things the Cowboys could have done to protect Romo was quit running so many shotgun, empty backfield sets, which they ran when he broke his collar bone against Philly in 2015.
 

cowboygo

Well-Known Member
Messages
852
Reaction score
1,063
The sell was besides being a great RB, he was the most proficient blocker coming out of college that scouts could recall, a stumbling block to most rookie backs. Meyer said he was the best player without the ball he'd ever seen.
yup, its just sad. He's 25! Once we are mathematically eliminated from playoffs, we should shut him down. Save some wear and tear. I don't care about paying him and keeping him on the bench. He's 25 and the mileage has affected him.
 

KingintheNorth

Chris in Arizona
Messages
17,304
Reaction score
23,644
The Zeke holdout, paying him and Jaylon 2 years too early, and mishandling the Dak situation will be taught in Sport Management and Football Personnel courses for years to come. What not to do, Lesson 1.

It's also funny that team that claims to be as heavily invested in analytics as the Cowboys claim, would both draft a RB high, and then pay him significantly 3 years into his 5-year deal.


Every time you yahoos want to pretend that our Front Office is "just like every other team" think of that situation. There are countless others but that off-season "strategy" really stands out on how inept they (still) are.
 
Top