We have the chance to pick the best defensive player in the draft

RonnieT24

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Go back and watch the game at Washington.

Add Dak and Pitts to Dallas and tell me it makes a difference in the outcome.

You can add Winslow Sr. also and Dallas still gets smoked.


I respectfully disagree here. No one can convince me that having a tight end whom you can dump the ball to on a hot route and then watch him take it 80 yards doesn't slow down the aggressiveness of the defense. Likewise so does having a QB who can take off and burn you. The WFTs came after Dalton with impunity because they knew he could not hurt them by getting out of the pocket and they weren't worried about what our tight ends might do if they left them clean over the middle. On the Cowboys very first drive on 1st and 10 they blitzed #54 and left a safety on Blake Bell who beat him by half a step. Replace Bell with Pitts and it's a 85 yard TD because all Dalton would have needed to do was lay it out for Pitts to run under it and there was no help over the top. As it was Dalton tried to dump it off the Lamb and it was incomplete. The next play he fumbles for a safety.. That's a 9 point swing right there if Dak and Pitts are in that game. 16 if you count the TD Washington scored on the ensuing short field after the free kick.
 

fivetwos

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I respectfully disagree here. No one can convince me that having a tight end whom you can dump the ball to on a hot route and then watch him take it 80 yards doesn't slow down the aggressiveness of the defense. Likewise so does having a QB who can take off and burn you. The WFTs came after Dalton with impunity because they knew he could not hurt them by getting out of the pocket and they weren't worried about what our tight ends might do if they left them clean over the middle. On the Cowboys very first drive on 1st and 10 they blitzed #54 and left a safety on Blake Bell who beat him by half a step. Replace Bell with Pitts and it's a 85 yard TD because all Dalton would have needed to do was lay it out for Pitts to run under it and there was no help over the top. As it was Dalton tried to dump it off the Lamb and it was incomplete. The next play he fumbles for a safety.. That's a 9 point swing right there if Dak and Pitts are in that game. 16 if you count the TD Washington scored on the ensuing short field after the free kick.
There's no real way to guarantee that Pitts would make a better play in that spot, and I was speaking in general.

The running lanes were absurdly wide in that game....no one can watch it and not have that jump out at them.

A tight end isn't going to change that.

They have guys to catch passes. The original point was I heard the same unstoppable crap when they added Lamb. Pitts doesn't make the Dallas offense that...and even if it did, it doesn't make the team better.
 

RonnieT24

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There's no real way to guarantee that Pitts would make a better play in that spot, and I was speaking in general.

The running lanes were absurdly wide in that game....no one can watch it and not have that jump out at them.

A tight end isn't going to change that.

They have guys to catch passes. The original point was I heard the same unstoppable crap when they added Lamb. Pitts doesn't make the Dallas offense that...and even if it did, it doesn't make the team better.

Well to be fair the offense was pretty damn unstoppable with Dak at the helm.. I mean they had scored over 30 points in 4 straight right? I agree that the running lanes for WFT were huge in that game but if you get them down 14-0 early on maybe you don't have to defend as many running plays.. So yes, having a tight end house a couple in the first quarter DOES change things.. And the scenario presented was Pitts AND Dak in that game. Once the WFTs figured out that Dalton wasn't going to throw the ball more than 6 feet beyond the line of scrimmage our offense was toast and their playcaller could pound our defense into submission on the ground.
 

fivetwos

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Well to be fair the offense was pretty damn unstoppable with Dak at the helm.. I mean they had scored over 30 points in 4 straight right? I agree that the running lanes for WFT were huge in that game but if you get them down 14-0 early on maybe you don't have to defend as many running plays.. So yes, having a tight end house a couple in the first quarter DOES change things.. And the scenario presented was Pitts AND Dak in that game. Once the WFTs figured out that Dalton wasn't going to throw the ball more than 6 feet beyond the line of scrimmage our offense was toast and their playcaller could pound our defense into submission on the ground.
I like you and your posts but I don't see how you can say it's so easy to flip the scenario of being down early into being up early. Changes everything.
 

Verdict

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Who would have thought at #10 we have the possibility to pick the best defensive player in the draft? While it appears to be a down year for defense, we still could have the pick of the litter with it looking like offense will go with the first 9 picks. Pretty amazing.

Who’s your selection? Both tackles and Pitts are gone.
There is a reason for that. Arguably no defensive player is worth the #10 pick.
 

Dracula

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if Pitts is gone, Then a trade down sounds like a good idea, assuming it's only a few spots. But, if someone comes with a Herschel Walker basket of draft picks, then that's tempting , too.
 

RonnieT24

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I like you and your posts but I don't see how you can say it's so easy to flip the scenario of being down early into being up early. Changes everything.

It's simple but not easy.. After the defense had the goal line stand the team was pumped.. They got the ball on the 1 yard line and quickly moved it to the 14 with a short pass, a penalty and a couple of Zeke runs. On the play I described the WFTs blitzed and left a safety one on one with the tight end Bell. If that tight end changes from a big lumbering blocker to a kid who runs 4.4 and the QB isn't a sitting duck that play goes for a TD or a 40 yard gain at minimum. Again, Dalton fumbles on the very next play and that is recovered by Schultz for a safety. Again, sub in Dak at QB and Pitts at TE and that sequence plays out very differently and in my opinion so does the whole game. Losing Dak rendered our offense a lot less scary for opposing defenses. And we've seen Dak and Co. hang 40 on that "great" WFT defense before.. If the offense can get back to being dominant it can cover up for the defense to a point, the way it did in 2018 and 2016. Even though the defense had respectable rankings in those years most of us understand that the offense made life easier on them and it's no surprise that once the offense stopped holding onto the ball for long stretches and starting every game with a lead the defense got exposed for what it was.. which is not really all that good. We can't draft enough guys to change this defense from horrible to good in one offseason.. But I do think we can get it back to "decent" which when paired with a 35 ppg offense should be good enough to win 11-12 games. Unless of course Goodell schedules all of our road games to the bitter cold to take place in December and January. Nothing like taking a southern, indoor team and asking them to play outdoors in 15 degree weather with the playoffs on the line.
 

CouchCoach

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I am happy with Surtain, Parsons or Barmore and can live with Horn. I also don't have a problem with Booger taking a shot at Farley, if he's still there. Not a draft without a 2nd round risk pick.
 

RonnieT24

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I am happy with Surtain, Parsons or Barmore and can live with Horn. I also don't have a problem with Booger taking a shot at Farley, if he's still there. Not a draft without a 2nd round risk pick.

Yeah the Farley dice roll in the 2nd round seems like it's coming. Surtain has the potential to be the Richard Sherman CB in Quinn's defense which would not suck. Parsons has the character questions and Barmore has the motor questions. Reminds me of David Irving.. All the talent in the world but not nearly as dominant on a consistent basis as his talent would suggest. Could he just have gotten locked in Saint Nick's doghouse and only got let out when he was needed?
 

CouchCoach

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Yeah the Farley dice roll in the 2nd round seems like it's coming. Surtain has the potential to be the Richard Sherman CB in Quinn's defense which would not suck. Parsons has the character questions and Barmore has the motor questions. Reminds me of David Irving.. All the talent in the world but not nearly as dominant on a consistent basis as his talent would suggest. Could he just have gotten locked in Saint Nick's doghouse and only got let out when he was needed?
Barmore is a lot like Charles Tapper. He frustrated his coaching staff at OU more than any D player they've had. They tried everything to find the right button. And the Cowboys couldn't find it either.

I watched him quite a bit and at times, he looked like Clowney on a roll. It was as if something would connect and he'd just go off. Then he would disappear again.

I get why coaches get so frustrated with players with God given talent and why Nick Hayden was Marinelli's favorite. Guys that just push themselves to the limit can steal a coach's heart.

It's like Jerry Rice. Considered the best to play his position but imagine his mind inside a player like Moss or Owens. Either one of those guys should be the GOAT except for their minds.
 

RonnieT24

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Barmore is a lot like Charles Tapper. He frustrated his coaching staff at OU more than any D player they've had. They tried everything to find the right button. And the Cowboys couldn't find it either.

I watched him quite a bit and at times, he looked like Clowney on a roll. It was as if something would connect and he'd just go off. Then he would disappear again.

I get why coaches get so frustrated with players with God given talent and why Nick Hayden was Marinelli's favorite. Guys that just push themselves to the limit can steal a coach's heart.

It's like Jerry Rice. Considered the best to play his position but imagine his mind inside a player like Moss or Owens. Either one of those guys should be the GOAT except for their minds.

This makes me wonder if it might just be simple conditioning. It's not talked about much but no two people have the same lung capacity and physical recoverability. It's why some people can run a marathon and barely look winded and some look to be on death's door after a 100 meter dash. Barmore may have the double whammy of having poor aerobic conditioning and inefficient oxygen process which leads to longer recovery periods than one might expect from a world class athlete. And as a youngster he may not even KNOW what causes him to feel fatigued after such a short amount of time and what keeps him feeling that way for so long. Then over time he gets frustrated with himself, the coaches get frustrated with him and yell and cajole him which leads to friction between player and coach and in the end everybody's mad at each other and nobody really knows the real reason why.. I played with and coach kids like this.. No amount of coach making them run laps or suicides would ever improve their conditioning.. It's a weird deal to be sure..
 

DuncanIso

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Who would have thought at #10 we have the possibility to pick the best defensive player in the draft? While it appears to be a down year for defense, we still could have the pick of the litter with it looking like offense will go with the first 9 picks. Pretty amazing.

Who’s your selection? Both tackles and Pitts are gone.

There are several OT's we can select in the 1st Round.

Brown, Lewis - slot , and Diggs are the starters at corner. We dont need a nickle/dime back.
 

Reid1boys

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Who would have thought at #10 we have the possibility to pick the best defensive player in the draft? While it appears to be a down year for defense, we still could have the pick of the litter with it looking like offense will go with the first 9 picks. Pretty amazing.

Who’s your selection? Both tackles and Pitts are gone.
Because defenses are being so hampered by the rules that you better be able to score points.

Nothing can ever replace a stud pass rusher though.
 

plasticman

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Cowboys may have a chance to pick three of the top twelve defensive players in the draft with a little wheelin' dealin'.

They could conceivably trade down about 10 to 12 spots and pick up extra picks. They could then use those extra picks in addition to compensatory picks to move back up into the 1st round, somewhere around #25 to #28 without burning their 2nd round pick at #44.

I'm thinking CB at the early 20's picks, Samuals, Farley or Newsome, the safety Moehrig with the late 20's pick, and DT Barmore or one of the LB's early in the 2nd round at #44.

Elite talent at one position is great if you are assured durability, consistent performance and future cap space. However, I would prefer to spread the talent around all positions in the defense. Plus, you never really know who is going to come in this league and excel. Also, you never know who is going to come into this league and experience misfortune, off the fields problems, or serious injury.

If I had the choice between a #10 pick or two first round picks between #20 and #26 then I would probably go with the latter.

Ed Reed was the #24 pick in his draft. Ray Lewis was #26. Ozzie Newsome #23, Dan Marino #27....Do you think anybody saw them as "generational" when they were drafted? People should be very careful when they use the word "generational". Any player could be generational but that designation is given after or near the end of a career, not before that career even begins.
 
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