A Quiet, Nasty Upgrade

America's Cowboy

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I would keep Cox at linebacker. God knows how badly we have needed a LB who can blitz and make plays in the backfield while being able to cover exceptionally well in coverage.
 

CoachD

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I was just watching a video from a guy that is trying to make the case that Cox is really a safety trapped in a linebacker's body. He says if Cox plays safety he could start today.
I said when he was drafted maybe the Cowboys have finally found their next Darren Woodson!
 

CowboyRoy

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Neal and Cox replace Lee/Smith

So you think the Quinn is going to put Cox in for smith in the nickel? I would love that, but doubt they will do it. Neal is probably the guy that Cox would replace and I don’t see that happening.
 

Whyjerry

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On passing downs, we can now deploy Neal and Cox instead of Lee/Smith.

We stand to see stickier coverage on TEs and RBs than we have seen in a loooong time. Of course this may directly result in more PBUs and INTs at LBer— but here is what excites me even more if Neal and Cox are successful:

No more easy throws to the flats or the soft parts of the zone. With Cox/Neal patrolling at LBer— QBs will be forced to make more difficult throws elsewhere, or fit balls into tighter windows. Or simply hold onto the ball a tick longer

More pressure. More sacks. More INTs. More fumbles.

For too long QBs have been able to make easy reads and throws to RBs and TEs....that can potentially change now with Cox and Neal as our nickel backers.

tenor.gif
The LB play has been terrible for 2 seasons. I agree. Hopefully this draft chases the 2 clowns currently at the helm.
 

CT Dal Fan

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I'm not sure who Queen is, but 7 of the other 9 guys you mentioned were offensive players, that was part of my point. Byron Jones was pretty good as a rookie, but would have changed little on the 2020 Cowboys defense, as people are expecting Joseph or the new fat DT or Parson to do.

LVE is a good example, he was another rare impressive rookie LB. On a different note, Pass rushers, like most offensive positions, have a quick doctrination into the NFL as their jobs can be quite complex, but the stat we rate them on is overly simple. A couple guards roll an ankle, another moment he mistakenly goes unblocked, or a blown play... and suddenly midway through the season a rookie DE has 4 sacks and everyone is talking about how great he's been.

So other than pass rushers, who was the last Cowboys defensive rookie to play as well as LVE? Was it in the 2000's? The 90's? Or even before?

Byron Jones had a very good rookie season in 2015 and I think Sean Lee had a great rookie year in 2010- I remember him picking off Peyton Manning in overtime to help the Cowboys (who were awful that year with Romo injured) upset the Colts. Also way back in 2005 DeMarcus Ware had 8 sacks as a rookie.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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Byron Jones had a very good rookie season in 2015 and I think Sean Lee had a great rookie year in 2010- I remember him picking off Peyton Manning in overtime to help the Cowboys (who were awful that year with Romo injured) upset the Colts. Also way back in 2005 DeMarcus Ware had 8 sacks as a rookie.

8 sacks is pretty impressive for a non pass rusher
 

plymkr

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I was just watching a video from a guy that is trying to make the case that Cox is really a safety trapped in a linebacker's body. He says if Cox plays safety he could start today.
Kind of reminds me of Darren Woodson. He was a LB in a safety's body.
 

DanA

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I'm not sure who Queen is, but 7 of the other 9 guys you mentioned were offensive players, that was part of my point. Byron Jones was pretty good as a rookie, but would have changed little on the 2020 Cowboys defense, as people are expecting Joseph or the new fat DT or Parson to do.

LVE is a good example, he was another rare impressive rookie LB. On a different note, Pass rushers, like most offensive positions, have a quick doctrination into the NFL as their jobs can be quite complex, but the stat we rate them on is overly simple. A couple guards roll an ankle, another moment he mistakenly goes unblocked, or a blown play... and suddenly midway through the season a rookie DE has 4 sacks and everyone is talking about how great he's been.

So other than pass rushers, who was the last Cowboys defensive rookie to play as well as LVE? Was it in the 2000's? The 90's? Or even before?

LOL. I was wondering why you were blathering about pass rush and then it hit me...you want to exclude Ware because he was defensive rookie of the year.

And we’re talking the Cowboys so with your exclusions, at a guess, that’s gonna be 3-4 eligible 1st round picks in the last 20 years. One of those (Roy Williams) was IMO better too, I think he was runner up as defensive rookie of the year.

But that’s getting a bit lost in the weeds. Micah Parsons is more ready made than LVE was, he will make an impact, but I’m not expecting any other rookies to start apart from Joseph who is a might start, and if he does, not expecting him to be better than Diggs last year. The rest role players if we’re lucky.
 
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Aerolithe_Lion

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LOL. I was wondering why you were blathering about pass rush and then it hit me...you want to exclude Ware because he was defensive rookie of the year.

And we’re talking the Cowboys so with your exclusions, at a guess, that’s gonna be 3-4 eligible 1st round picks in the last 20 years. One of those (Roy Williams) was IMO better too, I think he was runner up as defensive rookie of the year.

But that’s getting a bit lost in the weeds. Micah Parsons is more ready made than LVE was, he will make an impact, but I’m not expecting any other rookies to start apart from Joseph who is a might start, and if he does, not expecting him to be better than Diggs last year. The rest role players if we’re lucky.

No, because context. Micah Parsons, Kelvin Joseph, and Jabril Cox are not pass rushers. Comparing them to one doesn’t correlate anything. Pass rusher is a position that is much easier to accomplish successfully right away in your career, LB and CB are very much not, as evidence supports.
 

DanA

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No, because context. Micah Parsons, Kelvin Joseph, and Jabril Cox are not pass rushers. Comparing them to one doesn’t correlate anything. Pass rusher is a position that is much easier to accomplish successfully right away in your career, LB and CB are very much not, as evidence supports.

What evidence? LVE was a pro-bowler and about 1/3 of the defensive players of the year have have been off ball linebackers the last 20 years. CB yes, but LB...not at all.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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What evidence? LVE was a pro-bowler and about 1/3 of the defensive players of the year have have been off ball linebackers the last 20 years. CB yes, but LB...not at all.

Yes, but not rookies winning DPoY.

pro bowl rookie linebackers who aren’t pass rush specialist are rarer than pro bowl rookie quarterbacks
 

Cowboyny

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I think the plan will have Cox/Lve as our coverage linebackers, Parsons/Jaylon more as the run/box players and Neal to do a mixture of them both.
 

Silly

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Lol yup. I laughed at the blitz thread that I saw. Quinn never blitzed at a high level. We'll be bend dont break like with Richard and like it.

I don't know. Dallas finally has a big NT on the team. How many years has that been in the making. Maybe Big Mike is making the cowboys his team?
 

gimmesix

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On passing downs, we can now deploy Neal and Cox instead of Lee/Smith.

We stand to see stickier coverage on TEs and RBs than we have seen in a loooong time. Of course this may directly result in more PBUs and INTs at LBer— but here is what excites me even more if Neal and Cox are successful:

No more easy throws to the flats or the soft parts of the zone. With Cox/Neal patrolling at LBer— QBs will be forced to make more difficult throws elsewhere, or fit balls into tighter windows. Or simply hold onto the ball a tick longer

More pressure. More sacks. More INTs. More fumbles.

For too long QBs have been able to make easy reads and throws to RBs and TEs....that can potentially change now with Cox and Neal as our nickel backers.

tenor.gif

I think eventually Cox will take over the role that Neal will play (probably next year). I doubt we'll see them both on the field as our linebackers at the same time. Although Neal is a good run defender for a safety, we'd be vulnerable to the run with both him and Cox ats the only linebackers on the field. More likely, Neal will be on the field at linebacker in the nickel/dime with Parsons, Smith or LVE.
 

DanA

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Yes, but not rookies winning DPoY.

pro bowl rookie linebackers who aren’t pass rush specialist are rarer than pro bowl rookie quarterbacks


Seven offball linebackers have won defensive rookie of the year the last 20 years:

Vilma, Ryans, Willis, Mayo, Kushing, Kuechley, Leonard
 
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