Conner McGovern: Starting LG battle

[quickccc]

McGovern is in his 3rd year. As a professional he should have taken it on himself to fix his snap in the offseason, and *certainly* the supposed personnel professionals running our team should have demanded it.

The lack of professionalism in the team is infuriating.

McGovern is indeed in his 3rd year - but remember that his rookie year was totally wiped
starting with pectoral tear he suffered during OTAs,..

So last year was really his rookie like playing year.
as he only saw playing time in last year's camp and a few games at RG when injuries and
bad play at RT forced some reshuffling and he finally received very valuable game rep experience.

i didn't read nor hear any news tip with neither Conner at center -(as compared to rookie 7th round pick Matt Farniok getting
the valuable key reps at center( will that come for McGovern come raining camp time ?

Who Knows...?

 

[buybuydandavis]

McGovern is indeed in his 3rd year - but remember that his rookie year was totally wiped
starting with pectoral tear he suffered during OTAs,..

So last year was really his rookie like playing year.
as he only saw playing time in last year's camp and a few games at RG when injuries and
bad play at RT forced some reshuffling and he finally received very valuable game rep experience.

i didn't read nor hear any news tip with neither Conner at center -(as compared to rookie 7th round pick Matt Farniok getting
the valuable key reps at center( will that come for McGovern come raining camp time ?

Who Knows...?

Changing the grip on your snap is something you can do in an offseason, even while rehabbing. All it takes is some time every day.
Maybe he's done it. Maybe management demanded that he do it.

But the proof of that would come in OTAs. Has his snap changed? Are they even having him play serious snaps at C?
Last year, the answer to that would have been NO.
Haven't heard of him playing snaps at C this year either.

 

[buybuydandavis]

He’s average at best.

PFF has WIlliams 16/80 qualifying Gs. Significantly above average. Top quantile.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If everyone is healthy, we don't keep Williams, even without the Prescott deal. I can't see another big free agent contract to the oline, and especially for a LG. And we've got McGovern to take over too. Just doesn't make sense even w/o the Prescott deal.

I don't agree with this. To many people on this board think that these guys are plug and play and they aren't. If you allow him to simply walk away, it means that you have to replace him, probably with a lessor player and that guy is also likely to cost just as much or more. If you are able to upgrade that position via FA, then you are definitely paying more money so it makes no sense to allow him to walk. If you aren't paying Dak, then you have to go out and get a QB. That's either a brand new guy or an FA. Any FA worth anything is going to evaluate the OL for every team. You are forced to be solid up front or end up with a poor quality QB and you are still paying that guy as well. No, the only reason you let him go is if you are cap strapped or if you have a chance to upgrade the position and you actually have cap to do it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He’s average at best.

Based on what?

 

[quickccc]

I don't agree with this. To many people on this board think that these guys are plug and play and they aren't. If you allow him to simply walk away, it means that you have to replace him, probably with a lessor player and that guy is also likely to cost just as much or more.
If you are able to upgrade that position via FA, then you are definitely paying more money so it makes no sense to allow him to walk. If you aren't paying Dak, then you have to go out and get a QB. That's either a brand new guy or an FA.

Any FA worth anything is going to evaluate the OL for every team. You are forced to be solid up front or end up with a poor quality QB and you are still paying that guy as well. No, the only reason you let him go is if you are cap strapped or if you have a chance to upgrade the position and you actually have cap to do it.

Imo, Cowboys won't explore a pricey FA vet OGs to replace Williams, .if anything they'll go right back into the NFL draft again and they will draft another highly regarded OG again
.and that's also assuming that Phillibin is just not a fan of 3rd round pick McGovern, to replace Williams.

And you certainly do not to invest in these average bargain based players like Jonathan Cooper, Kyle Kosier like very stop gap band aids in FA for taking over LG long term position.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Imo, Cowboys won't explore a pricey FA vet OGs to replace Williams, .if anything they'll go right back into the NFL draft again and they will draft another highly regarded OG again
.and that's also assuming that Phillibin is just not a fan of 3rd round pick McGovern, to replace Williams.

And you certainly do not to invest in these average bargain based players like Jonathan Cooper, Kyle Kosier like very stop gap band aids in FA for taking over LG long term position.

I feel like you haven't really read this thread. First of all, Cooper was here for a year. One season of a career that lasted 5 years in the NFL. Cooper is not Williams. Williams is much better. People need to stop trying to compare these guys. If you can't see the difference between these two players, then we should probably not have this conversation at all, is the way I see that whole thing.

It's possible the Cowboys will draft a Guard high but why would they do that? You don't spend 1st round picks on players you intend to keep for 5 years and then just allow to walk in FA. That's how not to build a championship team 101. It's very possible that we sign an FA but they won't be cheaper. So if that's what you would like to see happen, OK, but again, it won't be cheap to do that IMO so why would you?

If you draft a guy, chances are, they won' be ready to start day one or even year one. I feel like Cowboy Fans are very spoiled in this regard. OLs don't normally walk on to a team and become day one starters or Pro Bowlers. They often take a couple of years to develop. There is no guarantee that we would be able to draft a guy and just plug that guy in so it means that you not only spend very valuable draft capitol that could be used to improve the Defense, as example, but you might also have to spend cap to still sign an FA.

It's weird, I've seen thus very discussion happen multiple times over the years. I saw it in the late 90s. I saw it in the mid 2Ks, I've seen it happen every few years but the only time I've really ever seen it work was when Parcells was here.

 

[quickccc]

I feel like you haven't really read this thread. First of all, Cooper was here for a year. One season of a career that lasted 5 years in the NFL. Cooper is not Williams. Williams is much better. People need to stop trying to compare these guys. If you can't see the difference between these two players, then we should probably not have this conversation at all, is the way I see that whole thing.

It's possible the Cowboys will draft a Guard high but why would they do that? You don't spend 1st round picks on players you intend to keep for 5 years and then just allow to walk in FA. That's how not to build a championship team 101. It's very possible that we sign an FA but they won't be cheaper. So if that's what you would like to see happen, OK, but again, it won't be cheap to do that IMO so why would you?

If you draft a guy, chances are, they won' be ready to start day one or even year one. I feel like Cowboy Fans are very spoiled in this regard. OLs don't normally walk on to a team and become day one starters or Pro Bowlers. They often take a couple of years to develop. There is no guarantee that we would be able to draft a guy and just plug that guy in so it means that you not only spend very valuable draft capitol that could be used to improve the Defense, as example, but you might also have to spend cap to still sign an FA.

It's weird, I've seen thus very discussion happen multiple times over the years. I saw it in the late 90s. I saw it in the mid 2Ks, I've seen it happen every few years but the only time I've really ever seen it work was when Parcells was here.

Huh? , .. lol …talk about someone not really reading the threads - I never suggest Jonathan Cooper was another Conner Williams, or vice versa,.. that wasn’t a player comparison, Cooper was an example of how of an acquisition direction that we should Not consider.
And Cooper and Kosier were bargain based FA directions on long term basis that we should Not be taking. We don’t need a band aid approach, but a long term regarded fixture.

I would like think the Cowboys are now beyond and advance with the cheap bargain band aid approach nowadays - And again,.. we know how the Cowboys are when it comes to big money FA vet method, and how much they would love and prefer to avoid that, the days of signing a Leonard Davis to monster deals are not here anymore – especially under Stephen Jones watch.

If Williams departs in FA and Cowboys (per Phillibin) are not sold on McGovern, then it’s in my opinion that they will seek out another highly regarded OG prospect in the NFL draft.

The concern here is then,.. if the Cowboys are not sold on either Conner, it will continue an absence and a failure to draft the idea fixture at LG, ..and that’s also two high picks we’ve invested at that position still managed failed to produce.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Huh? , .. lol …talk about someone not really reading the threads - I never suggest Jonathan Cooper was another Conner Williams, or vice versa,.. that wasn’t a player comparison, Cooper was an example of how of an acquisition direction that we should Not consider.
And Cooper and Kosier were bargain based FA directions on long term basis that we should Not be taking. We don’t need a band aid approach, but a long term regarded fixture.

I would like think the Cowboys are now beyond and advance with the cheap bargain band aid approach nowadays - And again,.. we know how the Cowboys are when it comes to big money FA vet method, and how much they would love and prefer to avoid that, the days of signing a Leonard Davis to monster deals are not here anymore – especially under Stephen Jones watch.

If Williams departs in FA and Cowboys (per Phillibin) are not sold on McGovern, then it’s in my opinion that they will seek out another highly regarded OG prospect in the NFL draft.

The concern here is then,.. if the Cowboys are not sold on either Conner, it will continue an absence and a failure to draft the idea fixture at LG, ..and that’s also two high picks we’ve invested at that position still managed failed to produce.

I don't think it's about being sold on Williams or not. It's about cap, but if you had read the thread, you would already know that. See, I did read your post and after I read it, I realized that you had not read what came before.

It's fine, it is what it is.

 

[quickccc]

I feel like you haven't really read this thread. First of all, Cooper was here for a year. One season of a career that lasted 5 years in the NFL. Cooper is not Williams. Williams is much better. People need to stop trying to compare these guys. If you can't see the difference between these two players, then we should probably not have this conversation at all, is the way I see that whole thing.

It's possible the Cowboys will draft a Guard high but why would they do that? You don't spend 1st round picks on players you intend to keep for 5 years and then just allow to walk in FA. That's how not to build a championship team 101. It's very possible that we sign an FA but they won't be cheaper. So if that's what you would like to see happen, OK, but again, it won't be cheap to do that IMO so why would you?

If you draft a guy, chances are, they won' be ready to start day one or even year one. I feel like Cowboy Fans are very spoiled in this regard. OLs don't normally walk on to a team and become day one starters or Pro Bowlers. They often take a couple of years to develop. There is no guarantee that we would be able to draft a guy and just plug that guy in so it means that you not only spend very valuable draft capitol that could be used to improve the Defense, as example, but you might also have to spend cap to still sign an FA.

It's weird, I've seen thus very discussion happen multiple times over the years. I saw it in the late 90s. I saw it in the mid 2Ks, I've seen it happen every few years but the only time I've really ever seen it work was when Parcells was here.

OG is the one position that they are immediate expectations, - particularly from a highly regarded prospect -because it's been considered the most adjustable position to learn
thus it's a position that is more plug and play than just about any other position on the the field.

Its a reason why we occasionally see even a few top rated OTs take the field immediately in the interior at OG, before they eventually move out to outside OT. (ala Tyron, Ogden, etc)
You should not need a couple of years to tell if a highly rated, highly invested OG that is Not slowed by injuries and received substantial amount of playing reps and game experience, is on his
way to be the player you expected him to be.

 

[quickccc]

I don't think it's about being sold on Williams or not. It's about cap, but if you had read the thread, you would already know that. See, I did read your post and after I read it, I realized that you had not read what came before.

It's fine, it is what it is.

It is indeed about being sold on Williams. If they are sold on Williams, he gets re-signed long term, ... if they are Not sold on Williams, then they allow him to depart
in FA, and it's off for the search for the next episode at LG.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

OG is the one position that they are immediate expectations, - particularly from a highly regarded prospect -because it's been considered the most adjustable position to learn
thus it's a position that is more plug and play than just about any other position on the the field.

Its a reason why we occasionally see even a few top rated OTs take the field immediately in the interior at OG, before they eventually move out to outside OT. (ala Tyron, Ogden, etc)
You should not need a couple of years to tell if a highly rated, highly invested OG that is Not slowed by injuries and received substantial amount of playing reps and game experience, is on his
way to be the player you expected him to be.

Actually, that's not true. At least not LG traditionally. LG is considered the harder position to play between the two guards, particularly between the two guard positions. It just so happens that Martin is a ridiculously great player and he played RG. Otherwise, none the above has been the case. John Niland, 9 years. Herb Scott, 9 years. Nate Newton, 13 years. Larry Allen, 12 years, Kyle Kosier, 7 years. This brings us to Leary, who was here for 5 years and we let walk because we did not want to pay him. That's when Martin arrived and the priorities shifted. But historically, none of what you suggest above was true, with regards to LG. I would go a step further and say that the idea of "Plug and Play" at LG has not been true. Johnathan Cooper for a year, and ten we drafted Williams and he's been the guy but we haven't really done a plug and pay at LG at all. In fact, it has been one of the most consistent positions, in terms of stability in the history of the Franchise.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It is indeed about being sold on Williams. If they are sold on Williams, he gets re-signed long term, ... if they are Not sold on Williams, then they allow him to depart
in FA, and it's off for the search for the next episode at LG.

Again, read the thread instead of trying to tell everybody what you don't know. This is not true. This will come down to money. Positions have priorities. More important positions, the deeper position groups will be effected differently. It's not a "Sold On" thing. That's just not true.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I don't agree with this. To many people on this board think that these guys are plug and play and they aren't. If you allow him to simply walk away, it means that you have to replace him, probably with a lessor player and that guy is also likely to cost just as much or more. If you are able to upgrade that position via FA, then you are definitely paying more money so it makes no sense to allow him to walk. If you aren't paying Dak, then you have to go out and get a QB. That's either a brand new guy or an FA. Any FA worth anything is going to evaluate the OL for every team. You are forced to be solid up front or end up with a poor quality QB and you are still paying that guy as well. No, the only reason you let him go is if you are cap strapped or if you have a chance to upgrade the position and you actually have cap to do it.

McGovern was drafted because he was well regarded, and he has played decently for us. As he currently projects, he'll be a drop off from Williams, but not tremendously. You've got to play cheaper players sometime. Can't give free agent contracts to everyone.
Too many people think we have infinite cap and never have to make trade offs between cap hit and player quality.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

McGovern was drafted because he was well regarded, and he has played decently for us. As he currently projects, he'll be a drop off from Williams, but not tremendously. You've got to play cheaper players sometime. Can't give free agent contracts to everyone.
Too many people think we have infinite cap and never have to make trade offs between cap hit and player quality.

I agree with this but one of the really key selling points on McGovern was that he also projected to Center. That, IMO, is one of the big reasons why we drafted him and the fact that the Tackle position was not settled. We didn't know where LC would end up, what Smitty's future was and what we would be doing at Center. His position flex was pretty key I think so now we got a guy who could probably play 3 positions is probably not the best at any of the three positions, we currently have on the team. But because of the contract, because of the money we now have available to us, I think Williams could be the odd man out, even though he is the best LG we currently have. He might be gone by next season and McGovern could be the starter.

Guess we'll see.

 

[Jbone100]

Per PFF, Williams was a well above average LG, ranking 16th of 80 guards.

I said “above average starter”. And I honestly didn’t mean that as a dig on him. I thought he played very well. Not a star but a very solid guard.

 

[cowboyec]

i don't think it'll be much of a contest.
connor williams is better than some think.
good not great.
hardly misses any snaps.
more than servicable.
i think he keeps his spot and handles business.
mcgovern is good depth.

 

[quickccc]

Again, read the thread instead of trying to tell everybody what you don't know. This is not true. This will come down to money. Positions have priorities. More important positions, the deeper position groups will be effected differently. It's not a "Sold On" thing. That's just not true.

Do you mean what you are saying it's not true..? i've already explained my position and view, but still waiting on you to try to come up with something of your own.
.
The point that this team has already sunk two high premium draft picks into the position, lets you know where the priority is with this team.
But the point that it is not a team strength, or one of the elite positions on this team yet.

And you keep bumping your gums about how it's gonna be about money, when you have not even elaborated how the position is gonna be about money.

And "Sold On " is true. Because once you've solidified a player at a certain position, then you don't have to be concerned or keep an watchful eye on player
to worry about him underachieving, not working out, not panning out, not being able to handle his own.. or this team having to still look for the long term answer.

If the Cowboys are "sold on" on Williams, they simply find a way to lock him on long term for years to come.
Maybe because you have such a Longhorn bias for Williams, that's placing some hysteria in you that the Cowboys may not be " sold on" on Williams and could likely move on from him.??

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Do you mean what you are saying it's not true..? i've already explained my position and view, but still waiting on you to try to come up with something of your own.
.
The point that this team has already sunk two high premium draft picks into the position, lets you know where the priority is with this team.
But the point that it is not a team strength, or one of the elite positions on this team yet.

And you keep bumping your gums about how it's gonna be about money, when you have not even elaborated how the position is gonna be about money.

And "Sold On " is true. Because once you've solidified a player at a certain position, then you don't have to be concerned or keep an watchful eye on player
to worry about him underachieving, not working out, not panning out, not being able to handle his own.. or this team having to still look for the long term answer.

If the Cowboys are "sold on" on Williams, they simply find a way to lock him on long term for years to come.
Maybe because you have such a Longhorn bias for Williams, that's placing some hysteria in you that the Cowboys may not be " sold on" on Williams and could likely move on from him.??

LOL.... Why don't you just break down and cry. You'll feel better.

Whatever man.

 

[Corso]

LOL.... Why don't you just break down and cry. You'll feel better.

Whatever man.

I thought about having a good cry today, just to detox the psyche, you know?
Then my little dog punched me in the face and said "Get it together man!", and he was right.

So I cried over being punched in the face by a little dog.

I feel much more manly now.