What Tony Pollard’s Numbers Make Clear

CATCH17

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Agree. Too late now, but next off is fine.


I don’t want to sound like I think Zeke sucks. On the contrary. He is a top 10 RB.

I just think Pollard is a star and if he was our starter he’d be viewed as a top 5-10 NFL RB.

What can Alvin Kamara do that Pollard can’t? Pollard is also a lot quicker and probably a better receiver.
 

kskboys

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I don’t want to sound like I think Zeke sucks. On the contrary. He is a top 10 RB.

I just think Pollard is a star and if he was our starter he’d be viewed as a top 5-10 NFL RB.
Looking at his skillset combined w/ analyzing his type RB from the past, I doubt it.
 

BrassCowboy

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FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY THIS OVER THE LOUD SPEAKER: ATTENTION ALL ZEKE SUPER FANS- THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-ZEKE THREAD. THANK YOU.

One of the bright spots that has clearly emerged this season is the development of Tony Pollard into a bonafide offensive weapon. So much so he can no longer just be a “rest opportunity” for Zeke. Pollard has shown that he can be a real asset in multiple situations.

I will go a step further: Tony Pollard is now a weapon that must be a part of every game plan.

Am I saying Zeke is not necessary? Absolutely NOT. Zeke is still a valuable offensive weapon too. Two things have changed. 1. Pollard has developed into a potential big play back. 2. Zeke is not what he was in 2016-18. He still has value. But he is no longer the “bell cow” 25 carries per game back, and he does not seem to have the burst to a big play he once did. Zeke still has value though in several areas including power runs, blocking and some passing routes.

It’s also clear Kellen Moore is recognizing Pollard’s increased value. Compare game one to game to game two regarding Pollard’s work load:
  • Game 1 vs TB- 7 touches. 3 rushes for 14 yards, 4 catches for 29 yards. 43 total yds
  • Game 2 vs LAC- 16 touches- 13 carries for 109 yds, 3 catches for 31 yds. 140 total yds.
Some of the numbers will vary depending on who we play. TB was certainly better than LAC against the run.

Looking at comparisons between Zeke and Pollard and explosive plays of 20 yds plus the last two years, the numbers speak for themselves.
  • Ezekiel Elliott - Number of plays of 20 yds+
    • 2016-2018- 30 plays of 20+ yds
    • 2019-20- 3 plays of 20+ yds
    • Notice the drop off after 2018.
  • Tony Pollard - Number of plays of 20 yds+
    • 2019-20- 8 plays of 20+ yds
    • 2021- already has 2 plays of 20+ yds
    • Last two years, Pollard has 10 plays of 20+ compared to 3 for Zeke.
Once again, not saying Zeke is no good or shouldn’t play. Just saying Pollard is more of a big play threat and needs to get more touches per game. The numbers are clear.
Could not have said it better :thumbup:
 

RonnieT24

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This upcoming game will be an interesting barometer for how much Zeke has regained against the 2016 model. He has averaged almost 99 yards and nearly 5 ypc against the Eagles in 8 games and has gone over 100 in 5 of them including 19 for 105 in his last game against them. Seems like he enjoys playing against the Eagles.. It'll be fun to see what transpires on this board Tuesday morning if he goes off against them Monday night. The fun part is that Pollard's big game last Sunday likely helps Zeke by drawing attention from the Philly defense.
 

waving monkey

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FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY THIS OVER THE LOUD SPEAKER: ATTENTION ALL ZEKE SUPER FANS- THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-ZEKE THREAD. THANK YOU.

One of the bright spots that has clearly emerged this season is the development of Tony Pollard into a bonafide offensive weapon. So much so he can no longer just be a “rest opportunity” for Zeke. Pollard has shown that he can be a real asset in multiple situations.

I will go a step further: Tony Pollard is now a weapon that must be a part of every game plan.

Am I saying Zeke is not necessary? Absolutely NOT. Zeke is still a valuable offensive weapon too. Two things have changed. 1. Pollard has developed into a potential big play back. 2. Zeke is not what he was in 2016-18. He still has value. But he is no longer the “bell cow” 25 carries per game back, and he does not seem to have the burst to a big play he once did. Zeke still has value though in several areas including power runs, blocking and some passing routes.

It’s also clear Kellen Moore is recognizing Pollard’s increased value. Compare game one to game to game two regarding Pollard’s work load:
  • Game 1 vs TB- 7 touches. 3 rushes for 14 yards, 4 catches for 29 yards. 43 total yds
  • Game 2 vs LAC- 16 touches- 13 carries for 109 yds, 3 catches for 31 yds. 140 total yds.
Some of the numbers will vary depending on who we play. TB was certainly better than LAC against the run.

Looking at comparisons between Zeke and Pollard and explosive plays of 20 yds plus the last two years, the numbers speak for themselves.
  • Ezekiel Elliott - Number of plays of 20 yds+
    • 2016-2018- 30 plays of 20+ yds
    • 2019-20- 3 plays of 20+ yds
    • Notice the drop off after 2018.
  • Tony Pollard - Number of plays of 20 yds+
    • 2019-20- 8 plays of 20+ yds
    • 2021- already has 2 plays of 20+ yds
    • Last two years, Pollard has 10 plays of 20+ compared to 3 for Zeke.
Once again, not saying Zeke is no good or shouldn’t play. Just saying Pollard is more of a big play threat and needs to get more touches per game. The numbers are clear.
there wont be much argument
and to all the " you dont spend first round capital on RB's. You might be right
Although Zeek's rookie year he was electric
 

Diehardblues

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This is about the same crapp as "leaving meat on the bone". It's simply fans who don't like a player picking fleas.

It is a good part Zeke's fault for holding out when he was under contract.
I’m not a fan of him personally or the character he presents off the field but I don’t let that influence my evaluation of him professionally.
 

Diehardblues

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Looking at his skillset combined w/ analyzing his type RB from the past, I doubt it.
Glad to see your input here. I figured some of these fans were over reacting and you’re probably right his contract holdout created some enemies who can’t separate their hearts from their minds. Thanks K!
 

CalPolyTechnique

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Hey man I went to Harvard.. I can't speak in two and three word sentences just so softheads can sorta understand. I try to direct my posts to intelligent people.. Stupid people (or those who pretend to be when it suits them) are none of my concern.

:lmao2:
 

CalPolyTechnique

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Do it yourself.. I don't chase goalposts.. No matter how many numbers tell you that Zeke is more consistent you'll find a way to poo poo it.. So go do your own homework.. I'm not wasting any more time presenting facts to people who refuse to accept them.

No, I’m trying educate you because you don’t know what the numbers you’re posting actually mean.

:lmao:
 

RonnieT24

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No, I’m trying educate you because you don’t know what the numbers you’re posting actually mean.

:lmao:

They mean that Zeke is far and away the more consistent player.. Your denying that won't change it one iota. One guy is held under 4 ypc in almost half the games he's played but HE's the one you want to feature more of.. Go figure. Clearly you hate the Cowboys..
 

tyke1doe

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Zeke doesn't have the burst he used to, or so it seems.
But he can handle a full load. I don't believe Pollard can.
You make him the featured back, and it will be but a few games before he's injured.
Personally, I like the rotating, two-back tandem because it poses a contrast of styles for the defense.
Hammer away with Zeke, quick-attack with Pollard.
Finally, we're using our offensive resources to their fullest.
Looks like we have a running game to complement our passing game.
And Dak seems to be maturing along with a defense that is now taking away the football from the other team.
I'm pessimistically hopeful. :laugh:
 

CalPolyTechnique

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They mean that Zeke is far and away the more consistent player.. Your denying that won't change it one iota. One guy is held under 4 ypc in almost half the games he's played but HE's the one you want to feature more of.. Go figure. Clearly you hate the Cowboys..

I bet you see a guy go 2-4 on opening day of the baseball season and say “this guy is the greatest hitter of all time….he’s batting .500!!!!”

Stats are like tools; they’re useless if you don’t know how to use them.

DB708151-A68-C-4-A2-F-A6-BE-58-CB511-BAF70.jpg
 
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quickccc

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While I think this sort of ability is still in Zeke I don't think we are ever going to see it in this offense. He's just not a shotgun type runner.. It's a bad marriage IMHO. Much as I would love to see us go back to a downhill power running attack Moore isn't going to do that.
The best chance we have of ever seeing Zeke at his best is in another uniform in a different offense. We drafted Zeke to be a bigger version of Emmitt.. this offense demands that he be a bigger version of Barry..

yeh Peterson was not a shotgun RB either. That style of RB offense is more suited to a scat back, multi-move types
Guys that are real big on top shiftiness, and elusiveness .
and having ZKE stop/re-start again, is not into his style. Coaches have to know what their players strength
and weaknesses are. and work and scheme best to what their players do best.

- When we watch Derrick Henry and how the Titans utilize him, they do run some draw plays for him but
they also allow him to run downhill , plays where he can build momentum and take off to homerun pay dirt.
and it's not just up the middle - Henry's 60 yard TD run vs Seattle was of tackle, he bounced it outside, on the
edges and he flat out-geared any incoming would be defenders.

- But from I've seen from the Chargers game, there were some handoffs that were not sprint draw plays, that were
handoffs that allowed Elliott to survey any leaks and cracks and it was a matter of how fast he needed to hit those
skinny lanes and opens in a blink.

- I often say we drafted Zeke to be more Peterson than an Emmitt.
As a Peterson type, in a breakaway threat that also had a power game to his weaponry.
That's why we invested such a high draft pick in him per 4th overall.

- Instead of allowing him to remain more Adrian Peterson like, The Garrett regime bulked him up to be
a methodical bell cow pounder, and he also took way too many pounding and toll that could have added to his decline.
And that's what likely started and begun the decline of Zeke after the 2017 season.

We still saw the Angry runs, but far less splash plays.

- The first thing that came out of Wil McClay was how they noticed and liked the speed element to Zeke's game
how quickly he gets in, out of holes and into 2nd level of defenders - and how he ZKE also had a power game.
 

RonnieT24

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yeh Peterson was not a shotgun RB either. That style of RB offense is more suited to a scat back, multi-move types
Guys that are real big on top shiftiness, and elusiveness .
and having ZKE stop/re-start again, is not into his style. Coaches have to know what their players strength
and weaknesses are. and work and scheme best to what their players do best.

- When we watch Derrick Henry and how the Titans utilize him, they do run some draw plays for him but
they also allow him to run downhill , plays where he can build momentum and take off to homerun pay dirt.
and it's not just up the middle - Henry's 60 yard TD run vs Seattle was of tackle, he bounced it outside, on the
edges and he flat out-geared any incoming would be defenders.

- But from I've seen from the Chargers game, there were some handoffs that were not sprint draw plays, that were
handoffs that allowed Elliott to survey any leaks and cracks and it was a matter of how fast he needed to hit those
skinny lanes and opens in a blink.

- I often say we drafted Zeke to be more Peterson than an Emmitt.
As a Peterson type, in a breakaway threat that also had a power game to his weaponry.
That's why we invested such a high draft pick in him per 4th overall.

- Instead of allowing him to remain more Adrian Peterson like, The Garrett regime bulked him up to be
a methodical bell cow pounder, and he also took way too many pounding and toll that could have added to his decline.
And that's what likely started and begun the decline of Zeke after the 2017 season.

We still saw the Angry runs, but far less splash plays.

- The first thing that came out of Wil McClay was how they noticed and liked the speed element to Zeke's game
how quickly he gets in, out of holes and into 2nd level of defenders - and how he ZKE also had a power game.

It kinda angers me that we may well have wasted yet another massively talented player here. Zeke should still be a dominant back and we should still be riding him to wins.. but when Moore became the OC we canceled that plan. At the end of the day as long as we win I don't care.. The problem is that since this shift in philosophy we have won a lot less.. which is why I don't like it.
 

quickccc

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It kinda angers me that we may well have wasted yet another massively talented player here. Zeke should still be a dominant back and we should still be riding him to wins.. but when Moore became the OC we canceled that plan. At the end of the day as long as we win I don't care.. The problem is that since this shift in philosophy we have won a lot less.. which is why I don't like it.

Zeke seemingly began on the decline before Kellen became OC.
in 2018, he only had one more run of 40+ yards (vs Seattle) after how many 20-40 yrd runs or pass plays when he
entered the NFL in 2016 ?
 

RonnieT24

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Zeke seemingly began on the decline before Kellen became OC.
in 2018, he only had one more run of 40+ yards (vs Seattle) after how many 20-40 yrd runs or pass plays when he
entered the NFL in 2016 ?

Maybe so but Zeke averaged 4.7 ypc in 2018.. Most backs would kill for that kind of season yet we call it a "decline year?" Long runs tend to diminish as backs mature in the league. Partly because they slow down and partly because each year they play adds chapters to the book on how to defend them. That's why backs who don't depend on one single dominant "gift" are better over the long hall. A speed back is all but worthless once he loses a step or defenses realize that he just wants to bounce everything and play to cut that off. A big back who is exclusively a power guy can be neutralized by stacking the line or getting penetration to get on him before he builds up a head of steam. Zeke brings a little of all of that to the table.. He's big but not so big as to be stiff. He's fast but just taking away the outside won't completely shut him down. He's powerful enough and clever enough in small spaces to make yards even when the blocking aint the greatest. The 40 yard run thing is just an arbitrary measure.. As long as he consistently moves the chains and does the dirty work we need him do we don't need him to break a bunch of long ones. Most of those came late in games when he had been able to wear defenses down.. those carries are going to Pollard now.. It is what it is..
 

zrinkill

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I agree Pollard needs to be on the field ...... I hope they primarily go 2 back set
 

glimmerman

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Zeke doesn't have the burst he used to, or so it seems.
But he can handle a full load. I don't believe Pollard can.
You make him the featured back, and it will be but a few games before he's injured.
Personally, I like the rotating, two-back tandem because it poses a contrast of styles for the defense.
Hammer away with Zeke, quick-attack with Pollard.
Finally, we're using our offensive resources to their fullest.
Looks like we have a running game to complement our passing game.
And Dak seems to be maturing along with a defense that is now taking away the football from the other team.
I'm pessimistically hopeful. :laugh:
Once Elliot gets going he will start breaking off 7 and 10 yard clips. That’s when we know the game is going our way. Get those shots deep or fake to Elliot and get it to Pollard in space.
 

StuckMojo

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Tony Pollards blocking is fine.. Is it better than Zeke’s? No. But Zeke’s blocking hasn’t exactly correlated to wins over the years.

It’s a big play league and Pollard is a big play back.

There is room for both and I like having fresh legs on the field but Tony Pollard is the guy who can crack a game open and make a play for this team.
Our OC likes the big play but there are times to see an offense just chip away 4 or 5 yards at a time all the way down the field and wear down opposing D while keeping our D off the field. I also believe that’s why we have have red zone issues is because our OC likes the big play. I don’t care who the RB as long as they are utilized for their strengths and we score.
 
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