What Tony Pollard’s Numbers Make Clear

[SteveTheCowboy]

Pollard is the better back and gives the team a better chance to win. Pollard should start going forward.

Elliott is just a name to sell tickets and get viewers and milk fans out of more money. Suckers.

WHat makes you say that?

What game have you seen that proves Tony would be a better "every down" back and all season long?

I don't think there's enough there to say...not even in college. Meanwhile zeke beat the top 4 teams in all the NCAA with his running for the 2014 championship. Then became the NFL rushing champ 2 of 4 years...and should have been 3 of 4.

But Tony is definitively better?

Your turn:

PS...I LOVE having both guys in there with a definitive and specific run game plan.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I agree that Zeke is not what he used to be.. Perhaps some of that is aging and slowing down but I would submit that a LOT of it is simply deployment. Moore uses him very differently than Linehan and Garrett did. More shotgun runs, less deep set runs. Almost exclusively between the tackles save for one or two tendency busters. And maybe the biggest one IMHO is that late in games with the Cowboys up big Zeke is on the sideline chillin when he used to be out there abusing a defense that had given up and DBs who want no part of him anymore. Now those late game totes go to Pollard and he gets huge plays off them. That's to his credit.. but this assertion that it cements the fact that Zeke is spent is inaccurate. I think it's a good strategy to hit defenses with two backs with different styles. If it helps the Cowboys win I'm all for it. But until we reel off a bunch of wins doing this I will view it as less desirable than when we used to ride Zeke.. I don't see how any Cowboys fan could feel any different..

I fully agree with you.....just the fact that Zeke had to raise his hand to get the rotation...is a sign of an incompetent run game plan.

I see a vast improvement this year so far.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

WHat makes you say that?

What game have you seen that proves Tony would be a better "every down" back and all season long?

I don't think there's enough there to say...not even in college. Meanwhile zeke beat the top 4 teams in all the NCAA with his running for the 2014 championship. Then became the NFL rushing champ 2 of 4 years...and should have been 3 of 4.

But Tony is definitively better?

Your turn:

PS...I LOVE having both guys in there with a definitive and specific run game plan.

I call it like I see it. I also don’t care what happened in college 7-8 years ago. Right now, Pollard is the more explosive and faster RB. Elliott got beat out by someone who is better. Plain and simple.

My philosophy is simple. Draft best player available. Best player plays regardless of where one was drafted or what one did in the past.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I call it like I see it. I also don’t care what happened in college 7-8 years ago. Right now, Pollard is the more explosive and faster RB. Elliott got beat out by someone who is better. Plain and simple.

My philosophy is simple. Draft best player available. Best player plays regardless of where one was drafted or what one did in the past.

But you haven't seen what you claim Tony is.that is a fact.

I acknowledge your right to an opinion ....

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I call it like I see it. I also don’t care what happened in college 7-8 years ago. Right now, Pollard is the more explosive and faster RB. Elliott got beat out by someone who is better. Plain and simple.

My philosophy is simple. Draft best player available. Best player plays regardless of where one was drafted or what one did in the past.

Joe Randle looked more explosive too...with obscene #2 numbers. All our #2 do...that's how it works.

Until they get#1

 

[RonnieT24]

Joe Randle looked more explosive too...with obscene #2 numbers. All our #2 do...that's how it works.

Until they get#1

In the last 20 years Cowboys fans have screamed for the backup with the gaudy ypc numbers and the higher percentage of splash plays to start 5 times.. They called for Hamrbick to replace Emmitt.. They screamed for Marion Barber to replace Julius Jones, they then screamed for Felix Jones to replace Barber, then they screamed for Murray to replace Felix.. and two years later they whined that Randle was better than Murray. Now they're doing the same thing with Pollard and Zeke.. The only time the fan base has ever been right was with Murray over Felix.. though to be fair Felix just couldn't stay healthy once they made him the starter.. So that was a problem that solved itself. If they do start Pollard at some point they will bring in some youngster in two years who will light it up in spot duty and it will start all over again.. These people never learn..

 

[ondaedg]

I agree that Zeke is not what he used to be.. Perhaps some of that is aging and slowing down but I would submit that a LOT of it is simply deployment. Moore uses him very differently than Linehan and Garrett did. More shotgun runs, less deep set runs. Almost exclusively between the tackles save for one or two tendency busters. And maybe the biggest one IMHO is that late in games with the Cowboys up big Zeke is on the sideline chillin when he used to be out there abusing a defense that had given up and DBs who want no part of him anymore. Now those late game totes go to Pollard and he gets huge plays off them. That's to his credit.. but this assertion that it cements the fact that Zeke is spent is inaccurate. I think it's a good strategy to hit defenses with two backs with different styles. If it helps the Cowboys win I'm all for it. But until we reel off a bunch of wins doing this I will view it as less desirable than when we used to ride Zeke.. I don't see how any Cowboys fan could feel any different..

Lest not forget that our OLine is not the same as it was when Zeke had a lot of those big runs. And Quicker backs like Pollard will always have more longer runs than bruisers like Zeke.

 

[Verdict]

FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY THIS OVER THE LOUD SPEAKER: ATTENTION ALL ZEKE SUPER FANS- THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-ZEKE THREAD. THANK YOU.

One of the bright spots that has clearly emerged this season is the development of Tony Pollard into a bonafide offensive weapon. So much so he can no longer just be a “rest opportunity” for Zeke. Pollard has shown that he can be a real asset in multiple situations.

I will go a step further: Tony Pollard is now a weapon that must be a part of every game plan.

Am I saying Zeke is not necessary? Absolutely NOT. Zeke is still a valuable offensive weapon too. Two things have changed. 1. Pollard has developed into a potential big play back. 2. Zeke is not what he was in 2016-18. He still has value. But he is no longer the “bell cow” 25 carries per game back, and he does not seem to have the burst to a big play he once did. Zeke still has value though in several areas including power runs, blocking and some passing routes.

It’s also clear Kellen Moore is recognizing Pollard’s increased value. Compare game one to game to game two regarding Pollard’s work load:

• Game 1 vs TB- 7 touches. 3 rushes for 14 yards, 4 catches for 29 yards. 43 total yds
• Game 2 vs LAC- 16 touches- 13 carries for 109 yds, 3 catches for 31 yds. 140 total yds.

Some of the numbers will vary depending on who we play. TB was certainly better than LAC against the run.

Looking at comparisons between Zeke and Pollard and explosive plays of 20 yds plus the last two years, the numbers speak for themselves.

• Ezekiel Elliott - Number of plays of 20 yds+
  • 2016-2018- 30 plays of 20+ yds
  • 2019-20- 3 plays of 20+ yds
  • Notice the drop off after 2018.
• Tony Pollard - Number of plays of 20 yds+
  • 2019-20- 8 plays of 20+ yds
  • 2021- already has 2 plays of 20+ yds
  • Last two years, Pollard has 10 plays of 20+ compared to 3 for Zeke.

Once again, not saying Zeke is no good or shouldn’t play. Just saying Pollard is more of a big play threat and needs to get more touches per game. The numbers are clear.

I think Pollard is a good back and I’m glad he is on our team. I am not comparing him to Zeke as this thread is expressly not about that.

Having said the foregoing, numbers can be a bit misleading. You have to consider the situation that various backs get their “touches” and also how much attention or game planning that a back receives and how it affects the players around him.

Pollard appears to have more burst than Zeke does currently. What we don’t know for sure is how much scheming Pollard has against him vs what Zeke is receiving. As tape gets out on Pollard and he is used more, teams may game plan him a little bit more.

Pollard may be the real deal, or it may be that he has received inadequate attention from defenses. The jury is still out on that one but I’m all for taking advantage of the situation.

I am a firm believer that Pollard’s strength is his speed “in space”. We need to keep him in that usage situation as much as possible.

 

[ondaedg]

Joe Randle looked more explosive too...with obscene #2 numbers. All our #2 do...that's how it works.

Until they get#1

Or they’re number 2 backs until we make the mistake of trying to make them #1s.

 

[Bobhaze]

I agree that Zeke is not what he used to be.. Perhaps some of that is aging and slowing down but I would submit that a LOT of it is simply deployment. Moore uses him very differently than Linehan and Garrett did. More shotgun runs, less deep set runs. Almost exclusively between the tackles save for one or two tendency busters. And maybe the biggest one IMHO is that late in games with the Cowboys up big Zeke is on the sideline chillin when he used to be out there abusing a defense that had given up and DBs who want no part of him anymore. Now those late game totes go to Pollard and he gets huge plays off them. That's to his credit.. but this assertion that it cements the fact that Zeke is spent is inaccurate. I think it's a good strategy to hit defenses with two backs with different styles. If it helps the Cowboys win I'm all for it. But until we reel off a bunch of wins doing this I will view it as less desirable than when we used to ride Zeke.. I don't see how any Cowboys fan could feel any different..

I don’t think Zeke is “spent” or finished. But he does have a lot of miles on his tires. I hope he has a great season. If Pollard can get about 10-12 carries a game and Zeke about 12-15, I think we will have an outstanding running game. I just don’t think having Zeke tote the rock over 20 carries a game is good anymore. But I agree that he’s not “done” or “spent”.

 

[kskboys]

I call it like I see it. I also don’t care what happened in college 7-8 years ago. Right now, Pollard is the more explosive and faster RB. Elliott got beat out by someone who is better. Plain and simple.

My philosophy is simple. Draft best player available. Best player plays regardless of where one was drafted or what one did in the past.

Go take a long look at the traits in a RB most conducive to winning playoff games.

 

[kskboys]

I call it like I see it. I also don’t care what happened in college 7-8 years ago. Right now, Pollard is the more explosive and faster RB. Elliott got beat out by someone who is better. Plain and simple.

My philosophy is simple. Draft best player available. Best player plays regardless of where one was drafted or what one did in the past.

BPA is a stupid draft strategy.

 

[RonnieT24]

Lest not forget that our OLine is not the same as it was when Zeke had a lot of those big runs. And Quicker backs like Pollard will always have more longer runs than bruisers like Zeke.

Not just the o line but the entire offense has shifted from a deep set which featured a lot of 12 personnel with two tight ends which gave the line a better chance to match the defense numbers wise at the point of attack. Now we are primarily a shotgun spread offense having replaced a tight end with a receiver. We got smaller at the same time that the line got worse. Now we HAVE to run out side to get big plays because we can't move people inside anymore. Since our receivers and tight ends for that matter are just okay blockers .. our outside runs are less successful in general. We don't have a WR on the team that blocks as well as Dez did except maybe Brown and none of our tight ends are close to Witten.

I firmly believe the contrast in styles between Zeke and Pollard are a big reason Pollard gets more big runs. The defense simply is not ready for his quickness after having to wrestle with the big hoss first. It's a good combination if used properly. I don't think there would be quite so many big runs if Pollard was the guy defenses got to gameplan for all week. Remember that last year when Pollard was tapped to start against the Niners they did not rule Zeke out until the morning of game day. I don't think that was any coincidence. Also recall that until late in the game when the Cowboys were up big Pollard was averaging less than 1.5 ypc.. He had two big runs in the final 4 minutes to bolster his average but he was pretty much shut down in the run game that day. However he was very good as a receiver..

 

[RonnieT24]

Go take a long look at the traits in a RB most conducive to winning playoff games.

Nope.. Barry Sanders and all his highlight reel runs led the Lions to many many championships while Emmitt's straight ahead, north south, move the chains style kept the Cowboys out of the playoffs ever year..

In an alternate universe that is...

 

[EST_1986]

Comparing Pollard to Hambrick is like comparing dogs and cats.

they're both animals so they are comparable

 

[RonnieT24]

I don’t think Zeke is “spent” or finished. But he does have a lot of miles on his tires. I hope he has a great season. If Pollard can get about 10-12 carries a game and Zeke about 12-15, I think we will have an outstanding running game. I just don’t think having Zeke tote the rock over 20 carries a game is good anymore. But I agree that he’s not “done” or “spent”.

I'm fine with whatever distribution works.. Like I said, my main issue is that since the shift in offensive philosophy we are seeing fewer Cowboy wins.. When that changes I for one will shut up and enjoy it. If we reel off a nice 6-1 stretch using both backs pretty much interchangeably you will NOT see me on here complaining about it. If we go 3-4 (or worse) doing it before the bye you absolutely will.

 

[xwalker]

FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY THIS OVER THE LOUD SPEAKER: ATTENTION ALL ZEKE SUPER FANS- THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-ZEKE THREAD. THANK YOU.

One of the bright spots that has clearly emerged this season is the development of Tony Pollard into a bonafide offensive weapon. So much so he can no longer just be a “rest opportunity” for Zeke. Pollard has shown that he can be a real asset in multiple situations.

I will go a step further: Tony Pollard is now a weapon that must be a part of every game plan.

Am I saying Zeke is not necessary? Absolutely NOT. Zeke is still a valuable offensive weapon too. Two things have changed. 1. Pollard has developed into a potential big play back. 2. Zeke is not what he was in 2016-18. He still has value. But he is no longer the “bell cow” 25 carries per game back, and he does not seem to have the burst to a big play he once did. Zeke still has value though in several areas including power runs, blocking and some passing routes.

It’s also clear Kellen Moore is recognizing Pollard’s increased value. Compare game one to game to game two regarding Pollard’s work load:

• Game 1 vs TB- 7 touches. 3 rushes for 14 yards, 4 catches for 29 yards. 43 total yds
• Game 2 vs LAC- 16 touches- 13 carries for 109 yds, 3 catches for 31 yds. 140 total yds.

Some of the numbers will vary depending on who we play. TB was certainly better than LAC against the run.

Looking at comparisons between Zeke and Pollard and explosive plays of 20 yds plus the last two years, the numbers speak for themselves.

• Ezekiel Elliott - Number of plays of 20 yds+
  • 2016-2018- 30 plays of 20+ yds
  • 2019-20- 3 plays of 20+ yds
  • Notice the drop off after 2018.
• Tony Pollard - Number of plays of 20 yds+
  • 2019-20- 8 plays of 20+ yds
  • 2021- already has 2 plays of 20+ yds
  • Last two years, Pollard has 10 plays of 20+ compared to 3 for Zeke.

Once again, not saying Zeke is no good or shouldn’t play. Just saying Pollard is more of a big play threat and needs to get more touches per game. The numbers are clear.

Many of us have been saying that since Pollard's rookie year...

 

[RonnieT24]

Many of us have been saying that since Pollard's rookie year...

How many of you came on and said it all those times he had 8-9 carries for 12-15 yards? Asking for a friend.. The bottom line is that since coming into the league Pollard has been held under 4 ypc in over 45% of his games.. Zeke's number is around 20% as I recall. Even more telling is the number of games below THREE yard per carry.. Zeke is around 10% and Pollard is over 30%. Yes Pollard is more likely to deliver a big play percentagewise.. but it's stupid to ignore that he's also far more likely to deliver absolutely nothing .. The question of course is the trade off. Is consistent churning out yards but fewer splash plays more valuable to an offense than consistently being stuffed but a occasional splash play? Now Pollard has NOT been stuff ed much so far this year.. So maybe he's gotten stronger or maybe he's not being asked to run between the tackles at all .. we will see as the year plays out. IF he shows over time that he can do what Zeke does between the tackles, moving the chains and doing the dirty work, while still delivering more splash plays then this "debate" will have some merit.

 

[quickccc]

BPA is a stupid draft strategy.

No it's not.
If that was the case, we would've have selected LSU/Jax DE K'Lavon Chaisson .. instead of WR CeeDee Lamb.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Lest not forget that our OLine is not the same as it was when Zeke had a lot of those big runs. And Quicker backs like Pollard will always have more longer runs than bruisers like Zeke.

Yep, not getting that 2016-2018 OL back. Probably never. Elliott without arguably the greatest OL ever is pretty average. When the OL went from great to average, Elliott also went from great to average.

Henry continues to be great even with average OLs.