Why the "Dak is elite" narrative is so flawed

jwooten15

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Dak broke some franchise records in 2021. I'm not here to deny that. What I will deny, though, is the significance and relevance of those records.

QB stats in 2021 are very disproportionately inflated, even compared to ~15 years ago. Take a look at this:

In the 2005-2006 season

  • 11 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (C. Palmer).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
In the 2006-2007 season
  • 10 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (P. Manning).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

"Greatness" is relative to the the era of NFL that a QB plays. Style of play and pass-happy rules in 2021 makes the NFL a drastically different league than it was even 15 years ago.

In the 2021-2022 season
  • 19 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. 9 threw for 30+TDs.
  • 6 QBs threw for over 4,500 yards. 10 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
And for those who will invariably try to "get me" by pointing out the 17 game schedule this year, more QBs threw for 30+ TDs in 2020 than 2021 and more QBs threw for over 4,000 yards in 2020 than 2021.

If he were teleported to 2005 and became the Cowboys starting QB, Dak would throw for 19 TDs and ~3,400 yards. That's just the reality. He'd be the equivalent of Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. A $40 million Gus Frerotte LOL!

People need to stop conflating gaudy passing stats to greatness. Greatness is much more nuanced than the # of passing TDs a guy has. Great players have "it" when the pressure is on. Dak doesn't.

Watch this video.. it summarizes what I'm saying very well

 

jwooten15

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What Romo did 15 years ago is much more impressive than what Dak did this year.

And I believe both guys are losers.
Agreed. Romo was mistake prone, especially the first 5-6 years of his career.

But Romo did phenomenal things with way less surrounding talent than Dak ever has. Romo made others better.

With the possible exception of TE, Dak makes those around him worse because of his inconsistencies.
 

CowboyFrog

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Dak broke some franchise records in 2021. I'm not here to deny that. What I will deny, though, is the significance and relevance of those records.

QB stats in 2021 are very disproportionately inflated, even compared to ~15 years ago. Take a look at this:

In the 2005-2006 season

  • 11 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (C. Palmer).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
In the 2006-2007 season
  • 10 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (P. Manning).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

"Greatness" is relative to the the era of NFL that a QB plays. Style of play and pass-happy rules in 2021 makes the NFL a drastically different league than it was even 15 years ago.

In the 2021-2022 season
  • 19 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. 9 threw for 30+TDs.
  • 6 QBs threw for over 4,500 yards. 10 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
And for those who will invariably try to "get me" by pointing out the 17 game schedule this year, more QBs threw for 30+ TDs in 2020 than 2021 and more QBs threw for over 4,000 yards in 2020 than 2021.

If he were teleported to 2005 and became the Cowboys starting QB, Dak would throw for 19 TDs and ~3,400 yards. That's just the reality. He'd be the equivalent of Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. A $40 million Gus Frerotte LOL!

People need to stop conflating gaudy passing stats to greatness. Greatness is much more nuanced than the # of passing TDs a guy has. Great players have "it" when the pressure is on. Dak doesn't.

Watch this video.. it summarizes what I'm saying very well




Wouldnt this mean all the QB's this year are behind the ones you listed from yester year or only certain ones? Again I dont care just pointing out what your argument is saying....Basically accomplishing those stats in todays NFL is just not impressive...right?
 

jwooten15

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Wouldnt this mean all the QB's this year are behind the ones you listed from yester year or only certain ones? Again I dont care just pointing out what your argument is saying....Basically accomplishing those stats in todays NFL is just not impressive...right?
I’m saying that all-time great QBs put up less gaudy stats in those days. Dak threw for more TDs in 2021 than guys like Favre, Manning, Brees, Brady, Big Ben, etc in 2005 or 2006. And according to many on here, Dak threw for more than those guys, so he must be better than them…

Basically, I’m trying to say that we need to keep proper perspective on what constitutes greatness and consider the significance of what the numbers objectively mean.
 

shabazz

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Dak broke some franchise records in 2021. I'm not here to deny that. What I will deny, though, is the significance and relevance of those records.

QB stats in 2021 are very disproportionately inflated, even compared to ~15 years ago. Take a look at this:

In the 2005-2006 season

  • 11 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (C. Palmer).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
In the 2006-2007 season
  • 10 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (P. Manning).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

"Greatness" is relative to the the era of NFL that a QB plays. Style of play and pass-happy rules in 2021 makes the NFL a drastically different league than it was even 15 years ago.

In the 2021-2022 season
  • 19 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. 9 threw for 30+TDs.
  • 6 QBs threw for over 4,500 yards. 10 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
And for those who will invariably try to "get me" by pointing out the 17 game schedule this year, more QBs threw for 30+ TDs in 2020 than 2021 and more QBs threw for over 4,000 yards in 2020 than 2021.

If he were teleported to 2005 and became the Cowboys starting QB, Dak would throw for 19 TDs and ~3,400 yards. That's just the reality. He'd be the equivalent of Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. A $40 million Gus Frerotte LOL!

People need to stop conflating gaudy passing stats to greatness. Greatness is much more nuanced than the # of passing TDs a guy has. Great players have "it" when the pressure is on. Dak doesn't.

Watch this video.. it summarizes what I'm saying very well




Proper Prospective and Critical Thinking are useful tools in finding the truth. Quality research and facts.
 

jwooten15

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Proper Prospective and Critical Thinking are useful tools in finding the truth. Quality research and facts.
Appreciate it brother.

I know this post will garner some hate, but I truly don’t dislike Dak as a player or a person.

I just wish he was more consistent and I wish a lot of people here would recognize some of his deficiencies instead of acting like he’s the best QB ever haha
 

CowboyFrog

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I’m saying that all-time great QBs put up less gaudy stats in those days. Dak threw for more TDs in 2021 than guys like Favre, Manning, Brees, Brady, Big Ben, etc in 2005 or 2006. And according to many on here, Dak threw for more than those guys, so he must be better than them…

Basically, I’m trying to say that we need to keep proper perspective on what constitutes greatness and consider the significance of what the numbers objectively mean.


I think most do, again "Elite" is a crazy word to use for 99.9% of the QB's labled...there are very few elite QB's in the history and opinions very. But what this argument shows is going for 4k yards and 30 td's is commin place for good QB's in the current NFL..right? If your only saying this to the few people trying to push elite on Dak thats one thing....what your stats actually show is what I'm asking....Easier question I guess would be what constitutes "Elite" stats wise in todays NFL to you?
 

Tangle_Foot

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Dak lacks the "it" factor that elite quarterbacks have. He simply isn't an elite quarterback. Good not great, make of it what you will, he's not going to carry a ball club. Doesn't mean that he can't be part of a winning ball club, but his shoulders aren't wide enough to be the reason we have success.
 
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MountaineerCowboy

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Even though Gp and myself may disagree on the topic of Dak, I still think he would be one of the best guys here to have a beer and watch a Cowboys game with…….we have all kinds of posters here and he is an eternal optimist.
I just cannot take a Cowboys/Yankees/Lakers fan seriously.

It screams that you just like whoever is most popular and trendy.
 

shabazz

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I think most do, again "Elite" is a crazy word to use for 99.9% of the QB's labled...there are very few elite QB's in the history and opinions very. But what this argument shows is going for 4k yards and 30 td's is commin place for good QB's in the current NFL..right? If your only saying this to the few people trying to push elite on Dak thats one thing....what your stats actually show is what I'm asking....Easier question I guess would be what constitutes "Elite" stats wise in todays NFL to you?

ya know the top 5 or 6 qbs in the league are just so much better than the 2nd and 3rd tier guys. Having a 2nd tier qb is ok as long as we have the financial resources to have a great supporting cast…..it is and will always be about the cap space with me….
 

shabazz

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I just cannot take a Cowboys/Yankees/Lakers fan seriously.

It screams that you just like whoever is most popular and trendy.

I can’t stand baseball or basketball so a hockey analogy is better for me. The thing is that at the end of the day we all have one thing in common….love for the star but this group is so vast and diverse in culture that there will always be infighting, lol
 

jwooten15

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I think most do, again "Elite" is a crazy word to use for 99.9% of the QB's labled...there are very few elite QB's in the history and opinions very. But what this argument shows is going for 4k yards and 30 td's is commin place for good QB's in the current NFL..right? If your only saying this to the few people trying to push elite on Dak thats one thing....what your stats actually show is what I'm asking....Easier question I guess would be what constitutes "Elite" stats wise in todays NFL to you?
I follow you. Yeah, there are a lot of guys who can/do put up stats that would have been considered “elite” in the past. Dak included.

But as you said, 30 TDs/4000 yards aren’t what they used to be. Unfortunately, a large number of people on here still consider those numbers to be benchmarks of greatness. They’ll use his stats as an argument to shield Dak from blame because his “stats were great”, etc. Hopefully I’m making sense lol

As for your other question, that’s a tough one. The modern NFL is custom made for gaudy stats, so I don’t think greatness can be defined solely by stats. Like I said in a previous post, that intangible “it” factor plays a huge part in what I look for to consider someone great or elite.
 
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