Can we get out of the damn shotgun?

RonnieT24

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When you go back and look at Zeke's highlights from early in his career they are almost all out of the deep back set. He attacks the line of scrimmage downhill and when there is a crease he sees it, puts a foot in the ground and attacks it. Even if there is a defender there to put a hand on him it doesn't even slow that beast down because he has serious forward momentum. FF to since Moore has taken over and easily 70-80% of our runs are out of shotgun.. So now the backs are nearly always waiting for the QB to bring them the ball and standing still .. It's absolute lunacy.. Especially given the leakage that our o-line seems to allow on nearly every run. Having the back standing next to the QB takes away vision and leverage against the defense. Great if you're Barry Sanders.. but for a downhill runner like Zeke it's just a mismatch. I can't stand watching him stand there waiting to be given the ball and have to fight off a free defender almost instantly. Ironically Pollard IS more of the jitterbug type back but even he is not equipped to have consistent success if there are defenders helping him take the handoff. This is going to be a looooonnnnnnng year.
 
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JayFord

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Yall gotta forward this to Kellen

or Forward it to Mike and tell him to make Kellen do this...since its the HC job to control the OC

Kinda cant have an assistant manager doing whatever he wants when you have a general manager
 

EMMITTnROY

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When you go back and look at Zeke's highlights from early in his career they are almost all out of the deep back set. He attacks the line of scrimmage downhill and when there is a crease he sees it, puts a foot in the ground and attacks it. Even if there is a defender there to put a hand on him it doesn't even slow that beast down because he has serious forward momentum. FF to since Moore has taken over and easily 70-80% of our runs are out of shotgun.. So now the backs are nearly always waiting for the QB to bring them the ball and standing still .. It's absolute lunacy.. Especially given the leakage that our o-line seems to allow on nearly every run. Having the back standing next to the QB takes away vision and leverage against the defense. Great if you're Barry Sanders.. but for a downhill runner like Zeke it's just a mismatch. I can't stand watching him stand there waiting to be given the ball and have to fight off a free defender almost instantly. Ironically Pollard IS more of the jitterbug type back but even he is not equipped to have consistent success if there are defenders helping him take the handoff. This is going to be a looooonnnnnnng year.
Completely agreed. My buddies hear me complain about this exact thing every time we watch a Cowboys game together.
 

nate dizzle

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When you go back and look at Zeke's highlights from early in his career they are almost all out of the deep back set. He attacks the line of scrimmage downhill and when there is a crease he sees it, puts a foot in the ground and attacks it. Even if there is a defender there to put a hand on him it doesn't even slow that beast down because he has serious forward momentum. FF to since Moore has taken over and easily 70-80% of our runs are out of shotgun.. So now the backs are nearly always waiting for the QB to bring them the ball and standing still .. It's absolute lunacy.. Especially given the leakage that our o-line seems to allow on nearly every run. Having the back standing next to the QB takes away vision and leverage against the defense. Great if you're Barry Sanders.. but for a downhill runner like Zeke it's just a mismatch. I can't stand watching him stand there waiting to be given the ball and have to fight off a free defender almost instantly. Ironically Pollard IS more of the jitterbug type back but even he is not equipped to have consistent success if there are defenders helping him take the handoff. This is going to be a looooonnnnnnng year.
Dude, I've been preaching from that book for 2 years now. For exactly the same reasons you cited.


Quit running 90% out of shotgun and get back to downhill, smash-mouth football. Give Zeke a FB. Said it before, Zeke is a power back at this stage of his career. His ability to get around the outside has pretty much vanished, but he can still hammer away on a defense between the gaps. Let him soften them up and then unleash Pollard later in the game.

Get out of shotgun and give Zeke a FB. This delayed handoff crap isn't effective for his running style. I feel like 80% of our run plays come out of shotgun. I don't know if this is because Dak struggles in dropping back and/or reading defenses from under center or what
 
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RonnieT24

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I 100% agree with you @RonnieT24 !!!! It's so frustrating and my ultimate pet peeve seeing them handing the ball off 7 yards deep in the back field!!! My goodness!! Come on Kellen!!!!

It's not really the depth of the handoff that kills us it's the play design that has them take the ball pretty much standing still .. or with maybe a one step startup. It doesn't really suit either Zeke or Pollard's style but it suits Pollard better. When you have the QB under center he can influence the flow of the defense because typically he will open up on side, show the ball, then hand it to the back going the other way. The defense, specifically the linebackers have to honor it when the QB opens up and shows the ball left.. then when the back gets it going right they're momentum is against them. Same with defensive linemen. If the offensive line can prevent penetration the back will be able to attack them downhill as well. Of course we know defenses often have called slants and stunts but even in the context of those, "go to the ball" is their #1 priority. Having the guy getting the ball be a stationary target for them is just plain stoopid.
 

Ken

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When you go back and look at Zeke's highlights from early in his career they are almost all out of the deep back set. He attacks the line of scrimmage downhill and when there is a crease he sees it, puts a foot in the ground and attacks it. Even if there is a defender there to put a hand on him it doesn't even slow that beast down because he has serious forward momentum. FF to since Moore has taken over and easily 70-80% of our runs are out of shotgun.. So now the backs are nearly always waiting for the QB to bring them the ball and standing still .. It's absolute lunacy.. Especially given the leakage that our o-line seems to allow on nearly every run. Having the back standing next to the QB takes away vision and leverage against the defense. Great if you're Barry Sanders.. but for a downhill runner like Zeke it's just a mismatch. I can't stand watching him stand there waiting to be given the ball and have to fight off a free defender almost instantly. Ironically Pollard IS more of the jitterbug type back but even he is not equipped to have consistent success if there are defenders helping him take the handoff. This is going to be a looooonnnnnnng year.
I agree with you but unfortunately, this us how the whole NFL operates now.

Just quickly looked up last year....we operated out of the Gun 476 times.

San Diego was 510.
Rams 473
KC 585
TB 578
Buffalo 556
GB 410
 

John813

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Cowboys have been using the shotgun formation heavily since 2019.

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--off-.html

2016 it was nearly 50-50, 2017 it was 50-50 and then in 2018 it went to 42% under center to 58% in shotgun.
2019 was the first year of Moore at OC and well the split has only increased.
19: 38% Under, 62% Shotgun
20: 36% Under, 64% Shotgun
21: Not available yet?
 

john van brocklin

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When you go back and look at Zeke's highlights from early in his career they are almost all out of the deep back set. He attacks the line of scrimmage downhill and when there is a crease he sees it, puts a foot in the ground and attacks it. Even if there is a defender there to put a hand on him it doesn't even slow that beast down because he has serious forward momentum. FF to since Moore has taken over and easily 70-80% of our runs are out of shotgun.. So now the backs are nearly always waiting for the QB to bring them the ball and standing still .. It's absolute lunacy.. Especially given the leakage that our o-line seems to allow on nearly every run. Having the back standing next to the QB takes away vision and leverage against the defense. Great if you're Barry Sanders.. but for a downhill runner like Zeke it's just a mismatch. I can't stand watching him stand there waiting to be given the ball and have to fight off a free defender almost instantly. Ironically Pollard IS more of the jitterbug type back but even he is not equipped to have consistent success if there are defenders helping him take the handoff. This is going to be a looooonnnnnnng year.
Moore is too attached to Garret's old offense.
I was soooo disappointed that Mac did not install his offense,
still am...
 

Coogiguy03

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When you go back and look at Zeke's highlights from early in his career they are almost all out of the deep back set. He attacks the line of scrimmage downhill and when there is a crease he sees it, puts a foot in the ground and attacks it. Even if there is a defender there to put a hand on him it doesn't even slow that beast down because he has serious forward momentum. FF to since Moore has taken over and easily 70-80% of our runs are out of shotgun.. So now the backs are nearly always waiting for the QB to bring them the ball and standing still .. It's absolute lunacy.. Especially given the leakage that our o-line seems to allow on nearly every run. Having the back standing next to the QB takes away vision and leverage against the defense. Great if you're Barry Sanders.. but for a downhill runner like Zeke it's just a mismatch. I can't stand watching him stand there waiting to be given the ball and have to fight off a free defender almost instantly. Ironically Pollard IS more of the jitterbug type back but even he is not equipped to have consistent success if there are defenders helping him take the handoff. This is going to be a looooonnnnnnng year.



I guess it's easier for Dak to read, I think it's also horrible trying to be a running team! Nobody wants a full back anymore but they want to run run run, get a lead blocker in there, can the shotgun forever I've hated this formation for years, time for a change
 

Coogiguy03

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Yall gotta forward this to Kellen

or Forward it to Mike and tell him to make Kellen do this...since its the HC job to control the OC

Kinda cant have an assistant manager doing whatever he wants when you have a general manager


THE GENERAL MANAGER WON'T ALLOW THE COACH TO DO SO
 

ItzKelz

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When you go back and look at Zeke's highlights from early in his career they are almost all out of the deep back set. He attacks the line of scrimmage downhill and when there is a crease he sees it, puts a foot in the ground and attacks it. Even if there is a defender there to put a hand on him it doesn't even slow that beast down because he has serious forward momentum. FF to since Moore has taken over and easily 70-80% of our runs are out of shotgun.. So now the backs are nearly always waiting for the QB to bring them the ball and standing still .. It's absolute lunacy.. Especially given the leakage that our o-line seems to allow on nearly every run. Having the back standing next to the QB takes away vision and leverage against the defense. Great if you're Barry Sanders.. but for a downhill runner like Zeke it's just a mismatch. I can't stand watching him stand there waiting to be given the ball and have to fight off a free defender almost instantly. Ironically Pollard IS more of the jitterbug type back but even he is not equipped to have consistent success if there are defenders helping him take the handoff. This is going to be a looooonnnnnnng year.
umm-no-kenan-thompson.gif
 

Coogiguy03

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1st and goal from the 2 . Shotgun set, empty backfield,
3rd and 2 , Shotgun set, zeke motions out wide
:laugh:


Motions out wide just to motion out wide, if you watch, he's never doing anything except clearing out for the WR over top I can't stand it!!!
 

Coogiguy03

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It's not really the depth of the handoff that kills us it's the play design that has them take the ball pretty much standing still .. or with maybe a one step startup. It doesn't really suit either Zeke or Pollard's style but it suits Pollard better. When you have the QB under center he can influence the flow of the defense because typically he will open up on side, show the ball, then hand it to the back going the other way. The defense, specifically the linebackers have to honor it when the QB opens up and shows the ball left.. then when the back gets it going right they're momentum is against them. Same with defensive linemen. If the offensive line can prevent penetration the back will be able to attack them downhill as well. Of course we know defenses often have called slants and stunts but even in the context of those, "go to the ball" is their #1 priority. Having the guy getting the ball be a stationary target for them is just plain stoopid.


Right because you can have a single back formation and still have a deep hand off
 

Redline360

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Holy **** we were just talking about this at work earlier lol. I honestly never really paid attention to it that much as that's how most of the nfl operates now

Notice the years the offense was at its peak? The earlier years when the run game wore down opposing defenses. As someone posted the under / shotgun stats above. We sadly had a piss poor defense then

We get the run game cemented with this upgraded defense from years ago we can look like the 2016 team again. Run defense is still the "kryptonite" that kills us though
 
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CWR

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When you go back and look at Zeke's highlights from early in his career they are almost all out of the deep back set. He attacks the line of scrimmage downhill and when there is a crease he sees it, puts a foot in the ground and attacks it. Even if there is a defender there to put a hand on him it doesn't even slow that beast down because he has serious forward momentum. FF to since Moore has taken over and easily 70-80% of our runs are out of shotgun.. So now the backs are nearly always waiting for the QB to bring them the ball and standing still .. It's absolute lunacy.. Especially given the leakage that our o-line seems to allow on nearly every run. Having the back standing next to the QB takes away vision and leverage against the defense. Great if you're Barry Sanders.. but for a downhill runner like Zeke it's just a mismatch. I can't stand watching him stand there waiting to be given the ball and have to fight off a free defender almost instantly. Ironically Pollard IS more of the jitterbug type back but even he is not equipped to have consistent success if there are defenders helping him take the handoff. This is going to be a looooonnnnnnng year.

Thanks for giving me one more reason to hate KM.
 

visionary

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When you go back and look at Zeke's highlights from early in his career they are almost all out of the deep back set. He attacks the line of scrimmage downhill and when there is a crease he sees it, puts a foot in the ground and attacks it. Even if there is a defender there to put a hand on him it doesn't even slow that beast down because he has serious forward momentum. FF to since Moore has taken over and easily 70-80% of our runs are out of shotgun.. So now the backs are nearly always waiting for the QB to bring them the ball and standing still .. It's absolute lunacy.. Especially given the leakage that our o-line seems to allow on nearly every run. Having the back standing next to the QB takes away vision and leverage against the defense. Great if you're Barry Sanders.. but for a downhill runner like Zeke it's just a mismatch. I can't stand watching him stand there waiting to be given the ball and have to fight off a free defender almost instantly. Ironically Pollard IS more of the jitterbug type back but even he is not equipped to have consistent success if there are defenders helping him take the handoff. This is going to be a looooonnnnnnng year.

We’re in shotgun because your hero Dak can’t read a defense after play action
 
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