Assessing the talent levels on this roster

[Bobhaze]

IMO, all NFL rosters have players of varying degrees of talent. There are layers of talent ranging from All Pro talent to just enough talent to make an NFL roster. In looking at the Cowboys roster, here is a talent estimate of our players, at a long term level. I am basing their category on what they have proven to be so far, along with their long term upside.

Talent Categories, their definitions, and players who qualify

1. All Pro Level- a player who has already proven to have the talent and performance level as one of the best players in the league. Key here is they have already proven their value over time as one of the best in the league. The proven best.
Our Players in this category: Tyron Smith, DeMarcus Lawrence, Sean Lee, Zack Martin, Travis Frederick, Dan Bailey (if returned to form) and Zeke Elliott.

2. Pro Bowl/Solid Starter Level- players who are solid enough to be a long term starter, maybe occasionally make the Pro Bowl as one of the best in the conference. These are guys who have shown some consistency as a key player.
Our Players in this category: Dak Prescott, La’El Collins, Byron Jones, Cole Beasley, Chris Jones, LP Ladouceuer

3. Young Talent with huge upside- This is where we are loaded. These are young players who have enormous talent but just need to prove it over time to move up into the top two tiers. Many but not all will move up into the top two levels. This is our future!
Our Players in this category- Jaylon Smith, Taco Charlton, Leighton Vander Esch, Connor Williams, Chidobe Awuzie, Michael Gallup, Jourdan Lewis, Randy Gregory

4. Young talent with some upside, but longer shots- these are young players who are talented but are probably never going to be long term starters. Good to have, but probably won’t be here long term.
Our Players in this category- Xavier Woods, Dalton Schultz, Blake Jarwin, Bo Scarborough, Jihad Ward, Kavon Frazier, Lance Lenoir, Malik Collins, Charles Tapper, Rico Gathers, Cedric Wilson, Noah Brown, Chavarius Ward

5. Veterans who can play but not long term answers- these are guys who are veteran players good enough to make an NFL roster, maybe even be a short term starter, but who probably have no long term future with the team.
Our Players in this category: Terrance Williams, Tyrone Crawford, Tavon Austin, Rod Smith, Jeff Heath, Geoff Swaim, Cameron Fleming, Damien Wilson, Deonte Thompson, Joe Looney and some others I didn’t list.

6. Dead men walking- these guys will be cut soon and probably won’t be picked up.
Our guys in this category- Chaz Green, Kony Ealy, Jameil Showers, and a few others I’m too lazy to list.

The GREAT NEWS is, the guys in levels 3 and 4- the young guys with talent and upside are so plentiful, if half of them turn out to be really good starters, this will be an excellent football team! If our top two tiers stay healthy, and half of the middle tier moves up, wow.

I’m sure there are disagreements. Your thoughts?

 

[glimmerman]

You may be wrong about Rod. He is looking like he improved a lot. Not sure about Looney or Austin yet they maybe up the chart a little by years end.

Elliot IMO will be eligible for all pro after this year.

Also did Bailey kick last night. I think he did the EP after the TD. I am wondering about him.

 

[Carson]

You may be wrong about Rod. He is looking like he improved a lot. Not sure about Looney or Austin yet they maybe up the chart a little by years end.

Elliot IMO will be eligible for all pro after this year.

Also did Bailey kick last night. I think he did the EP after the TD. I am wondering about him.

99% sure all kicking went to Brett Maher

 

[glimmerman]

99% sure all kicking went to Brett Maher

Ok. I thought Bailey kicked the first extra point. I want him in there. Don’t baby him. If he is good to go then I need to know. You know how important it is for me to know this stuff cause I am so important. Lol.

 

[Bobhaze]

You may be wrong about Rod. He is looking like he improved a lot. Not sure about Looney or Austin yet they maybe up the chart a little by years end.

Elliot IMO will be eligible for all pro after this year.

Also did Bailey kick last night. I think he did the EP after the TD. I am wondering about him.

I already have Zeke Elliott in the top tier.
I don’t think Bailey kicked in the game Thursday. It was the camp kicker but I can’t think of his name.

One of my criteria with this evaluation was whether or not a guy was a long term player or not. I love Rod Smith- super glad he’s here. But if he continues to play well, which I think he will, he will simply become a cap casualty. Same for some other guys we have that may be here a long time.

 

[glimmerman]

I already have Zeke Elliott in the top tier.
I don’t think Bailey kicked in the game Thursday. It was the camp kicker but I can’t think of his name.

One of my criteria with this evaluation was whether or not a guy was a long term player or not. I love Rod Smith- super glad he’s here. But if he continues to play well, which I think he will, he will simply become a cap casualty. Same for some other guys we have that may be here a long time.

Do you think we pay Elliot when it’s time? I am assuming we pick up the 5th year option. But the rams screwed the NFL playing that much to a RB. The money is approaching QB money. Well not now. The QB money is getting insane also. We are gonna pay a fortune for Dak.

 

[Bobhaze]

Do you think we pay Elliot when it’s time? I am assuming we pick up the 5th year option. But the rams screwed the NFL playing that much to a RB. The money is approaching QB money. Well not now. The QB money is getting insane also. We are gonna pay a fortune for Dak.

That’s one of the big questions facing this organization. IMO, the team should franchise tag him at least a year before signing him to a long term deal. I want to see some consistency and some maturity off the field before signing him to a cap loaded deal.

 

[xwalker]

IMO, all NFL rosters have players of varying degrees of talent. There are layers of talent ranging from All Pro talent to just enough talent to make an NFL roster. In looking at the Cowboys roster, here is a talent estimate of our players, at a long term level. I am basing their category on what they have proven to be so far, along with their long term upside.

Talent Categories, their definitions, and players who qualify

1. All Pro Level- a player who has already proven to have the talent and performance level as one of the best players in the league. Key here is they have already proven their value over time as one of the best in the league. The proven best.
Our Players in this category: Tyron Smith, DeMarcus Lawrence, Sean Lee, Zack Martin, Travis Frederick, Dan Bailey (if returned to form) and Zeke Elliott.

2. Pro Bowl/Solid Starter Level- players who are solid enough to be a long term starter, maybe occasionally make the Pro Bowl as one of the best in the conference. These are guys who have shown some consistency as a key player.
Our Players in this category: Dak Prescott, La’El Collins, Byron Jones, Cole Beasley, Chris Jones, LP Ladouceuer

3. Young Talent with huge upside- This is where we are loaded. These are young players who have enormous talent but just need to prove it over time to move up into the top two tiers. Many but not all will move up into the top two levels. This is our future!
Our Players in this category- Jaylon Smith, Taco Charlton, Leighton Vander Esch, Connor Williams, Chidobe Awuzie, Michael Gallup, Jourdan Lewis, Randy Gregory

4. Young talent with some upside, but longer shots- these are young players who are talented but are probably never going to be long term starters. Good to have, but probably won’t be here long term.
Our Players in this category- Xavier Woods, Dalton Schultz, Blake Jarwin, Bo Scarborough, Jihad Ward, Kavon Frazier, Lance Lenoir, Malik Collins, Charles Tapper, Rico Gathers, Cedric Wilson, Noah Brown, Chavarius Ward

5. Veterans who can play but not long term answers- these are guys who are veteran players good enough to make an NFL roster, maybe even be a short term starter, but who probably have no long term future with the team.
Our Players in this category: Terrance Williams, Tyrone Crawford, Tavon Austin, Rod Smith, Jeff Heath, Geoff Swaim, Cameron Fleming, Damien Wilson, Deonte Thompson, Joe Looney and some others I didn’t list.

6. Dead men walking- these guys will be cut soon and probably won’t be picked up.
Our guys in this category- Chaz Green, Kony Ealy, Jameil Showers, and a few others I’m too lazy to list.

The GREAT NEWS is, the guys in levels 3 and 4- the young guys with talent and upside are so plentiful, if half of them turn out to be really good starters, this will be an excellent football team! If our top two tiers stay healthy, and half of the middle tier moves up, wow.

I’m sure there are disagreements. Your thoughts?

The way you defined the categories makes it a bit difficult.

I would add a category of boom/bust. Guys that could end up starting at some point in the future but that might not make the 53. Rico, Marcus Martin, Tapper, etc.). I guess Jihad Ward could fit that criteria; although I think it's likely he makes the roster.

LP is as good as anybody past or present that has done that job.

I would not put any limitation on the upside of Dak, La'el or Byron Jones at CB.

I'm not sure a punter can perform significantly better than Chris Jones. Phenom Hekker of the Rams averages 47 vs 45 for Jones and 39% downed inside the 20 vs 37% for Jones.

Maliek Collins has done way more than the other players you have on that tier. He was terrific as a rookie at 3tech. He was forced to play 1tech in 2017 and that's not the correct position for him.

I wouldn't limit Tavon Austin's future now that he has an OC that loves him. He is getting great reviews from the coaches on his leadership and performance in training camp.

Joe Looney might be here a long time. He is a good gameday backup.

Fleming could be a backup for several years.

Heath might be on the team for many more years. It would be good to upgrade over him as a starter but he could have a role as a situational package player long term.

Don't be shocked if Chaz Green remains on the team. He had a lot of good reps in the game. The penalty actually should have been on the defender not on Green. The defender reached under and pulled Green's Jersey with him forcing Green towards him.

Green's problems are all technique. His technique was OK in 2016 when he started 2 games a LT but regressed radically last season. He has NFL physical talent. They have a new OL coach and coaches often think they can solve technique problems.

It's too bad that the announcers are not even talking about the actual play that just happened on the field because the penalty on Green is something a good analyst would notice.

 

[CATCH17]

We’re a well built team but lack so much in the coaching department.

 

[JustChip]

IMO, all NFL rosters have players of varying degrees of talent. There are layers of talent ranging from All Pro talent to just enough talent to make an NFL roster. In looking at the Cowboys roster, here is a talent estimate of our players, at a long term level. I am basing their category on what they have proven to be so far, along with their long term upside.

Talent Categories, their definitions, and players who qualify

1. All Pro Level- a player who has already proven to have the talent and performance level as one of the best players in the league. Key here is they have already proven their value over time as one of the best in the league. The proven best.
Our Players in this category: Tyron Smith, DeMarcus Lawrence, Sean Lee, Zack Martin, Travis Frederick, Dan Bailey (if returned to form) and Zeke Elliott.

2. Pro Bowl/Solid Starter Level- players who are solid enough to be a long term starter, maybe occasionally make the Pro Bowl as one of the best in the conference. These are guys who have shown some consistency as a key player.
Our Players in this category: Dak Prescott, La’El Collins, Byron Jones, Cole Beasley, Chris Jones, LP Ladouceuer

3. Young Talent with huge upside- This is where we are loaded. These are young players who have enormous talent but just need to prove it over time to move up into the top two tiers. Many but not all will move up into the top two levels. This is our future!
Our Players in this category- Jaylon Smith, Taco Charlton, Leighton Vander Esch, Connor Williams, Chidobe Awuzie, Michael Gallup, Jourdan Lewis, Randy Gregory

4. Young talent with some upside, but longer shots- these are young players who are talented but are probably never going to be long term starters. Good to have, but probably won’t be here long term.
Our Players in this category- Xavier Woods, Dalton Schultz, Blake Jarwin, Bo Scarborough, Jihad Ward, Kavon Frazier, Lance Lenoir, Malik Collins, Charles Tapper, Rico Gathers, Cedric Wilson, Noah Brown, Chavarius Ward

5. Veterans who can play but not long term answers- these are guys who are veteran players good enough to make an NFL roster, maybe even be a short term starter, but who probably have no long term future with the team.
Our Players in this category: Terrance Williams, Tyrone Crawford, Tavon Austin, Rod Smith, Jeff Heath, Geoff Swaim, Cameron Fleming, Damien Wilson, Deonte Thompson, Joe Looney and some others I didn’t list.

6. Dead men walking- these guys will be cut soon and probably won’t be picked up.
Our guys in this category- Chaz Green, Kony Ealy, Jameil Showers, and a few others I’m too lazy to list.

The GREAT NEWS is, the guys in levels 3 and 4- the young guys with talent and upside are so plentiful, if half of them turn out to be really good starters, this will be an excellent football team! If our top two tiers stay healthy, and half of the middle tier moves up, wow.

I’m sure there are disagreements. Your thoughts?

Where is Allen Hurns?

 

[CPanther95]

Do you think we pay Elliot when it’s time? I am assuming we pick up the 5th year option. But the rams screwed the NFL playing that much to a RB. The money is approaching QB money. Well not now. The QB money is getting insane also. We are gonna pay a fortune for Dak.

Not only paying that much, but doing it after year 3.

 

[Diehardblues]

IMO, all NFL rosters have players of varying degrees of talent. There are layers of talent ranging from All Pro talent to just enough talent to make an NFL roster. In looking at the Cowboys roster, here is a talent estimate of our players, at a long term level. I am basing their category on what they have proven to be so far, along with their long term upside.

Talent Categories, their definitions, and players who qualify

1. All Pro Level- a player who has already proven to have the talent and performance level as one of the best players in the league. Key here is they have already proven their value over time as one of the best in the league. The proven best.
Our Players in this category: Tyron Smith, DeMarcus Lawrence, Sean Lee, Zack Martin, Travis Frederick, Dan Bailey (if returned to form) and Zeke Elliott.

2. Pro Bowl/Solid Starter Level- players who are solid enough to be a long term starter, maybe occasionally make the Pro Bowl as one of the best in the conference. These are guys who have shown some consistency as a key player.
Our Players in this category: Dak Prescott, La’El Collins, Byron Jones, Cole Beasley, Chris Jones, LP Ladouceuer

3. Young Talent with huge upside- This is where we are loaded. These are young players who have enormous talent but just need to prove it over time to move up into the top two tiers. Many but not all will move up into the top two levels. This is our future!
Our Players in this category- Jaylon Smith, Taco Charlton, Leighton Vander Esch, Connor Williams, Chidobe Awuzie, Michael Gallup, Jourdan Lewis, Randy Gregory

4. Young talent with some upside, but longer shots- these are young players who are talented but are probably never going to be long term starters. Good to have, but probably won’t be here long term.
Our Players in this category- Xavier Woods, Dalton Schultz, Blake Jarwin, Bo Scarborough, Jihad Ward, Kavon Frazier, Lance Lenoir, Malik Collins, Charles Tapper, Rico Gathers, Cedric Wilson, Noah Brown, Chavarius Ward

5. Veterans who can play but not long term answers- these are guys who are veteran players good enough to make an NFL roster, maybe even be a short term starter, but who probably have no long term future with the team.
Our Players in this category: Terrance Williams, Tyrone Crawford, Tavon Austin, Rod Smith, Jeff Heath, Geoff Swaim, Cameron Fleming, Damien Wilson, Deonte Thompson, Joe Looney and some others I didn’t list.

6. Dead men walking- these guys will be cut soon and probably won’t be picked up.
Our guys in this category- Chaz Green, Kony Ealy, Jameil Showers, and a few others I’m too lazy to list.

The GREAT NEWS is, the guys in levels 3 and 4- the young guys with talent and upside are so plentiful, if half of them turn out to be really good starters, this will be an excellent football team! If our top two tiers stay healthy, and half of the middle tier moves up, wow.

I’m sure there are disagreements. Your thoughts?

#1. While the others are Pro Bowl level I believe only Martin has been name All Pro.

#2. Only Prescott and Jones have been named to Pro Bowl. And Dak is prob closer to 2017 than 2016 until further evidence.

#3. Awuzie and Lewis provided some glimpse of hope last year. For a 1st rounder Taco was disappointing. Gregory and Jaylon bust so far. The rest are Rookies. Silly to say anything about them yet.

4. Not much to report on yet..

5. This is an interesting list of role players who can add some value to our roster.

6. Shocked Chaz is still on Roster, Showers is a PS guy and Ealy was to me potentially best off season pickup. SEC def player of the year coming out of Missouri as a high 2nd round pick. I wouldn’t count him out yet.

But preseason is a time for an optimistic outlook. This is a nice way to cheer on our guys Bob.
Go Cowboys!!

 

[Vinnie2u]

We’re a well built team but lack so much in the coaching department.

Well yeah there is that....But I do like our new DB coach. Hopefully our new Head Coach will keep him..

 

[Haimerej]

Terrance Williams, Tyrone Crawford, Tavon Austin, Rod Smith, Jeff Heath, Geoff Swaim,

Not sure how you're defining, "no long term future." Terrance and Tyrone are signed through 2021, Heath through 2020. As much as some fans don't like them, they're all starters and likely not going anywhere until their contracts are up. Crawford was a team captain last year. Heath is better than fans give him credit. Terrance is probably the only one who should be looking over their shoulder.

Austin and Swaim are FAs next year. Swaim could be the starter this year and IIRC, he was one of Dak's favorites during his rookie preseason campaign. If he's as good as he's been (and stays healthy), I see no reason he won't be around even if they want an upgrade. If they do half the stuff with Austin they've been talking about he'll likely get another contract (if that stuff is effective, of course).

What makes you think Rod will go elsewhere?

 

[Batman1980]

Gathers is a dead man walking

 

[Bobhaze]

Not sure how you're defining, "no long term future." Terrance and Tyrone are signed through 2021, Heath through 2020. As much as some fans don't like them, they're all starters and likely not going anywhere until their contracts are up. Crawford was a team captain last year. Heath is better than fans give him credit. Terrance is probably the only one who should be looking over their shoulder.

Austin and Swaim are FAs next year. Swaim could be the starter this year and IIRC, he was one of Dak's favorites during his rookie preseason campaign. If he's as good as he's been (and stays healthy), I see no reason he won't be around even if they want an upgrade. If they do half the stuff with Austin they've been talking about he'll likely get another contract (if that stuff is effective, of course).

What makes you think Rod will go elsewhere?

You make excellent points H man. The reason I had Terrance Williams on that list is even though he is signed a few years ahead, he only has one more yr of guaranteed money. With the rise of some young receiver talent, plus without any more upside in his future, I think his days are numbered.

Regarding Rod Smith, I think he’s going to become too expensive after this year or next because of his production. IMO, he will be able to command more in FA than we are willing to pay with Zeke’s possible payday looming in a couple of years.

I agree 100% that Heath is better than most here believe. But I just dont see him as a long term answer. You can’t keep everyone you like. And with this team’s recent love for drafting and developing over FAs, I just see them moving on from some guys who are good but not great. In today’s NFL, you shouldn’t fall in love with the good players on the team- just the great ones.

 

[Bobhaze]

We’re a well built team but lack so much in the coaching department.

I believe that Garrett is a mediocre HC at best, but I also believe we have upgraded the overall coaching talent with several key Asst coaching additions like Kris Richard and Sanjay Lal.

We shouldn’t underestimate Assistant coaches’ impact. Look at the list of former Cowboys assistants who went on to be great HCs, some winning SBs- Mike Ditka, Dan Reeves, Sean Payton, Mike Zimmer, Tony Sparano and many others I’m forgetting. If our new Asst coaches are really good, they can greatly impact this team’s performance.

 

[kskboys]

That’s one of the big questions facing this organization. IMO, the team should franchise tag him at least a year before signing him to a long term deal. I want to see some consistency and some maturity off the field before signing him to a cap loaded deal.

Esp maturity.

I love Elliot's talent, but not sure he's the type to maximize.

 

[kskboys]

I believe that Garrett is a mediocre HC at best, but I also believe we have upgraded the overall coaching talent with several key Asst coaching additions like Kris Richard and Sanjay Lal.

We shouldn’t underestimate Assistant coaches’ impact. Look at the list of former Cowboys assistants who went on to be great HCs, some winning SBs- Mike Ditka, Dan Reeves, Sean Payton, Mike Zimmer, Tony Sparano and many others I’m forgetting. If our new Asst coaches are really good, they can greatly impact this team’s performance.

That's actually what I was glad to see. Bringing in some new asst's was key. And a different QB's coach, IMO, makes a huge difference.

 

[Bobhaze]

That's actually what I was glad to see. Bringing in some new asst's was key. And a different QB's coach, IMO, makes a huge difference.

The new assistants give me some hope. Garrett is Garrett. But maybe Richard and Lal can raise the bar for us. Sure hope so.