Franchise QBs

Diehardblues said:
Right.. with one of the best defenses and running games he’s not expected to carry the team.

We can only hope we can develop a similar situation here with Dak. I think it’s a reasonable comparison.

And let’s hope Daks contract is similar also with 3 years 50 million which doesn’t commit long term nor totally straps the team in continuing to surround with talent.

Because if you commit closer to100 million he’d better be able to elevate lesser talent around him.
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I think you're right for the most part. Except I think Dak elevates this team to some extent where I do not believe Bortles does at all. What other QB besides Romo, during the Romo era, has had any success with this team at all? I think you're right as to what is expected from Bortles. It's probably similar to Trent Dilfer. Play smart, just don't lose the game for us. More is expected from Dak.
 
ejthedj said:
I was scouting some Jaguars cause they apparently have a deep Line and now might need, say, Hurns back -- trade baby! it makes too much sense, but anyway...

I came across a Bortles post, which apparently is a very common debate similar to our Dak debates. The author wasn't pro-Jake but did say he improved last year and is their franchise QB.

Here was his bullet points (stay with me)

  • higher completion percentage (60.2% was career high)
  • fewer interceptions (13 was career low)
  • lower INT% (2.5% was career low)
  • higher quarterback rating (from 78.8 to 84.7)
  • higher QBR (from 42.8 to 55.5, a career high)
  • fewer sacks allowed (24, a career low)
  • career-high net yards per pass attempt (NY/A) and adjusted net yards per pass attempt (ANY/A)
  • reduced total turnovers (INT's + fumbles lost) from 22 to 16 (a career low)

Now, let's think about our similar Dak debates. Dak's worst year crushes these numbers. Bortles is an inaccurate turnover machine, who doesn't really threaten with his legs. Dak's best year makes this look laughable. And this was a team on the brink of the Super Bowl. And a guy who has much more experience and higher draft pedigree.

I say we let Dak grow, and thank god we actually have a franchise QB. Not so sure about Bortles.
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Our problem isn't Dak, it's Dak's backup. Remember 2015? I know we try to forget it but imagine if Cooper Rush has to play 14 games, 4-12 might look damned good. And please don't say Mike White
 
ejthedj said:
I was scouting some Jaguars cause they apparently have a deep Line and now might need, say, Hurns back -- trade baby! it makes too much sense, but anyway...

I came across a Bortles post, which apparently is a very common debate similar to our Dak debates. The author wasn't pro-Jake but did say he improved last year and is their franchise QB.

Here was his bullet points (stay with me)

  • higher completion percentage (60.2% was career high)
  • fewer interceptions (13 was career low)
  • lower INT% (2.5% was career low)
  • higher quarterback rating (from 78.8 to 84.7)
  • higher QBR (from 42.8 to 55.5, a career high)
  • fewer sacks allowed (24, a career low)
  • career-high net yards per pass attempt (NY/A) and adjusted net yards per pass attempt (ANY/A)
  • reduced total turnovers (INT's + fumbles lost) from 22 to 16 (a career low)

Now, let's think about our similar Dak debates. Dak's worst year crushes these numbers. Bortles is an inaccurate turnover machine, who doesn't really threaten with his legs. Dak's best year makes this look laughable. And this was a team on the brink of the Super Bowl. And a guy who has much more experience and higher draft pedigree.

I say we let Dak grow, and thank god we actually have a franchise QB. Not so sure about Bortles.
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Only Fly in the honey is that Bortles has lead his team to a place Dallas hasn't seen since 1996. This is where your stat analysis breaks down. There are intangibles involved when your talking about QBs. You would never know how bad Dak struggled in the passing game last year just looking at cumulative numbers. You have to actually watch the games and Bortles looked better last year.
 
oh yeah Dak's the best ever, better than Troy, Tony or Roger.. he's the best ever. blah blah blah... and Garrett is better than Landry, and Jimmy....
 
Batman1980 said:
One doesn't have to be a great player to be a good coach.
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Correct!!

As a matter of fact history would support that the greatest players were not as good of HC than the lesser talented players .

And there’s a good philosophy behind this. Because the greater athletes talent and ability came more natural to them while the lesser talented had to work harder to develop their craft.
 
atlantacowboy said:
Only Fly in the honey is that Bortles has lead his team to a place Dallas hasn't seen since 1996. This is where your stat analysis breaks down. There are intangibles involved when your talking about QBs. You would never know how bad Dak struggled in the passing game last year just looking at cumulative numbers. You have to actually watch the games and Bortles looked better last year.
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It’s interesting how in one breathe fans claim Bortyles is considered a Bus Driver but yet in another gets credit for leading his team to a championship appearance.

I’m not saying you’re saying this but your post spurred my thought.

As fans our individual evaluations place far too much credit on winning games and the success in the playoffs which is a team accomplishment.

Look how impressed we all were with Daks winning wave in 2016 but critical in 2017. Our personal evaluations of QB far too often revolve around the success of the team,
 
I have said from the get go this is a big season coming up for Dak and I do think like any player especially QB you have to be patient and allow development of a young QB. He has shown at the get go this team can win with him at QB but he has much to learn and much to improve on. I look forward to seeing him lead this team this year and hopefully put to rest any debate that he is our QB for now and for the future.
 
are Cowboy fans really mad they are looking at a potential franchise QB? because you know they happen every draft every round.
 
All QBs are bus drivers. I wish fans would stop using that stupid phrase like it means anything.
 
I think my buddies who are Jags fans would easily agree that Dak's the better QB but Bortles has had a couple decent seasons he's also just had some really bad seasons in between. I don't think he's a franchise QB, I also don't think he's as terrible as he's made out to be. He had a solid season last year with a receiving core/offensive line/running back probably slightly below ours.
 
Bob-Lillys-War said:
Coaches need to learn under other coaches, its not pure luck to be a good coach ... and the mentality that a 'bad player will make a great coach' is sad as it is laughable.

That is why people want to be coaches and others players, since they are young . They have different passions and interests.

A bad player who FALLS BACK ON COACHING is a death trap .
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Simply not true.

Of course, instead of bad, the term should be marginally talented.
 
Diehardblues said:
It’s interesting how in one breathe fans claim Bortyles is considered a Bus Driver but yet in another gets credit for leading his team to a championship appearance.

I’m not saying you’re saying this but your post spurred my thought.

As fans our individual evaluations place far too much credit on winning games and the success in the playoffs which is a team accomplishment.

Look how impressed we all were with Daks winning wave in 2016 but critical in 2017. Our personal evaluations of QB far too often revolve around the success of the team,
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I just think that is the nature of the QB position. If you win consistently, you get labelled a winner regardless of your stats. Hasn't been a problem in Dallas though for decades.
 
atlantacowboy said:
I just think that is the nature of the QB position. If you win consistently, you get labelled a winner regardless of your stats. Hasn't been a problem in Dallas though for decades.
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I understand and agree to an extent but that doesn’t equate into an accurate evaluation besides whether they’re on a winning team or not.
 
LocimusPrime said:
:hammer: Bortles is trash. Throwout all those tricky numbers and stats. You can tell a franchise qb when you watch them play. You'll find yourself saying "holy crud". " omg did you see that". "No freaking way" " are you kidding me"
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Lol. I was saying that stuff during this last preseason game. But not about a franchise QB.
 
Diehardblues said:
As fans our individual evaluations place far too much credit on winning games and the success in the playoffs which is a team accomplishment.

,
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That is because winning is more important than saying a player is better.
 
Aviano90 said:
That is because winning is more important than saying a player is better.
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Asbsolutely.

However, if you're not interested in evaluating individual players, there's no reason to even enter those type discussions. And just because winning is most important does not mean that other facets shouldn't be discussed.
 
kskboys said:
Asbsolutely.

However, if you're not interested in evaluating individual players, there's no reason to even enter those type discussions. And just because winning is most important does not mean that other facets shouldn't be discussed.
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Tony Romo was a top 10 QB from 2006-2016, even if our record rarely reflected that. It really is an embarrassment how bad most of our WRs and OLs and RBs were during his tenure. Don't even get me started on the lack of defensive talent.
 
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