Another Elite RB Goes Home Ringless

mattjames2010

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elite ... this is problem i have with what you are trying to argue... players can play at an elite level for a short or for an extended period and yet not be considered an "elite" player. Was Chris Johnson an elite runner the year he earned the nickname CJ2K? Yes. Is he described as an elite player in the annals of football history? No. How about demarco murray? Yes when he hit 1800+ yards, no for a career.

Ray Rice went from 800 yfs in his rookie season to 2000 +/- yards from scrimmage in second year... he changed the way the ravens played... they ran their offense thru him for those four years... and surprise they won a Super Bowl... with Joe Flacco... Thats how ray rice was an elite player during that period... any by the way... adrian peterson only had one season in his storied career where he gained more then 2000 yards from scrimmage ... Ray Rice? Two, in a much shorter career...

So I dont know what to tell you Matt ... we have a fundamental disagreement as to what constitutes "elite" ...

2 2,000 yard total yards is not all that unique - again, you don't know what you're talking about. What made Peterson elite is the fact that he had 2,000 yards just from rushing alone. 700 receiving with a little over 1,000 yards rushing and 9 TDs-12 TDs is not "elite" - either way, the year Ravens won the freakin' Super Bowl, he was far from an "elite" player. Nor are you even making a valid argument here - again I will state, having a couple great seasons does not make you an elite player.

Demarco Murray was never "elite" - he had some great seasons, the same with Chris Johnson. If anything, you're proving my point - despite the guy going over 2,000 yards rushing on the ground and Demarco Murray having 1,800 yards rushing - neither of them were elite, and they certainly were not worth a big contract. It's a fundamental problem with the position - big years and then nothing. It's a fade fast position.

Jesus.
 

Pape

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2 2,000 yard total yards is not all that unique - again, you don't know what you're talking about. What made Peterson elite is the fact that he had 2,000 yards just from rushing alone. 700 receiving with a little over 1,000 yards rushing and 9 TDs-12 TDs is not "elite" - either way, the year Ravens won the freakin' Super Bowl, he was far from an "elite" player. Nor are you even making a valid argument here - again I will state, having a couple great seasons does not make you an elite player.

Demarco Murray was never "elite" - he had some great seasons, the same with Chris Johnson. If anything, you're proving my point - despite the guy going over 2,000 yards rushing on the ground and Demarco Murray having 1,800 yards rushing - neither of them were elite, and they certainly were not worth a big contract. It's a fundamental problem with the position - big years and then nothing. It's a fade fast position.

Jesus.

Peterson was a great runner, has done it over a long period of time. No doubt.

But what you are failing to see, and its a trap you have fallen into over and over, you refuse to give credit to anyone who falls out side of your narrowly defined definition of what elite it. As I said before You keep moving the goal posts in order to satisfy your argument. There is nothing anyone can say that you cant counter with well they arent elite enough.

Running backs do more than run with the ball. If Rice puts up comparable yards to Peterson, whether the ball is handed off to him or thrown to him, he is still gaining those yards. It puts his play on par with the one guy you described as "elite".

Your views of stats are narrow minded, and basically show a one dimension pattern of thinking. You lay out criteria that is impossible to meet because you never define it in order to "prove" a point. Thats not an argument, thats a three year old yelling "Im taking my ball away cuz you're a meanie!" Based on your own words there has been only 1 elite running back in the league in the '10's, Adrian Peterson. How can anyone populate a list of "elite" running backs that have contributed to winning a Super Bowl when there has been only one "elite" back in your designated time period?

So whats the point of asking the question/making the point if the answer is a foregone conclusion?

But, in the end you are dead wrong. You wouldn't know an elite back unless someone on ESPN said so... Adrian Peterson is the only elite back in the 2010's is utterly laughable...

Heres one for you: Sony Michel is an elite Running Back. Julian Edelman is an Elite Receiver.

You don't like it? Don't think he's an elite back? Tough, you're wrong. And the reason why your wrong is Stats Lie. You took a look and saw 931 yards in 2018... I look and see 981 yards in 13 games, another 350 yards and 6 tds in the post season AND more importantly 38:20, 43:59, & 33:10.

In case you don't understand - that's NE's time of possession in the three post season games they played this year. That is not possible with out the production of Sony Michel. The Patriots won because of him. That is what makes him elite. Not some stat line on a piece of paper.

Roster Building is much more complex than saying we have to do this we cant do that. Each piece has to balance out somewhere else. The biggest fault of the Cowboys roster is not them willing to commit 12 or 15 million to Zewok ... The cap is so high right now, its meaningless.The cap and the burden of signing one or two players to large contracts can be ameliorated over time and restructures. 99% of all those large deals are just for show. Most players never see the back half of the deals. The biggest problem is the coaches you all have kept around. They have done more to waste the talent on your roster than any few million dollars here or there ever will.


TLDR: your whole argument is bs.
 
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Doomsday101

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You do know you could say that about any position player, there are HOF players who never got a ring not just RB.
 

atlantacowboy

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LOL "correlation is not causation" - just going on 20 freakin' years without an elite RB and WR getting rings, but eat up contracts, but yes - they are certainly a great NEED to get to win a Super Bowl. Seems you are still struggling with the point here....

> Marshawn Lynch is a future HOFer and he lead Seattle to a pretty convincing super bowl win over Denver a few years ago.

Marshawn Lynch in that "pretty convincing Super Bowl" had 39 yards rushing on 15 carries for an average below 3 YPC and a long of 18 yards. Yes, without that AMAZING performance - they wouldn't have won it. LOL

> The only team that wins with any consistency is NE, and you can't copy what they do.

Every team that has won a Super Bowl outside of the Patriots the past 15 years have had this

1. An elite QB
2. A great/elite defense

The Patriots don't have a unique "formula" - what they have is a great defensive guru head coach and elite QB every year that is able to put together what wins you super bowls - a great QB or a great defense, they normally have one or both.

We want Elliott to take us there with his 15+ million a year contract (he'll probably want more) even though history shows, elite RBs don't win you Super Bowls, they just eat up cap space. Going to be great that both Cooper and Elliott will be taking up 30+ cap space a year between the two and Dak could potentially make that 60+ if he high balls Jerry with some trailer park sob story.

So the bar is now that the elite running back must not only carry his team to the super bowl but also dominate the game? Lynch lead the NFL in TDs and made the pro bowl that year. He was central to their success that season. Brady has had some horrific super bowl performances. You going to ding him too?

Obviously, QB is the most important position on the field. I'm not arguing that RB is on par. I'm saying there is no causation between having an elite runner and not winning a super bowl. An elite runner does not "cause" your team to have no chance. You are looking at a correlational stat and drawing an erroneous conclusion.

I think it is the case in the salary cap era that you cannot pay an elite runner AND an elite QB while still fielding a respectable defense and OL to protect them. Seattle is the exception b/c they had Wilson on a cheap 3rd round rookie contract. They could afford to pay Lynch.

In regard to the Cowboys, your argument becomes relevant when its time to pay Zeke. He's only in year 3 of his rookie deal. We have a 5th year option and then a franchise tag. We have him for 4 more years before having to come up with big money or let him walk.
 

mattjames2010

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So the bar is now that the elite running back must not only carry his team to the super bowl but also dominate the game? Lynch lead the NFL in TDs and made the pro bowl that year. He was central to their success that season. Brady has had some horrific super bowl performances. You going to ding him too?

Obviously, QB is the most important position on the field. I'm not arguing that RB is on par. I'm saying there is no causation between having an elite runner and not winning a super bowl. An elite runner does not "cause" your team to have no chance. You are looking at a correlational stat and drawing an erroneous conclusion.

I think it is the case in the salary cap era that you cannot pay an elite runner AND an elite QB while still fielding a respectable defense and OL to protect them. Seattle is the exception b/c they had Wilson on a cheap 3rd round rookie contract. They could afford to pay Lynch.

In regard to the Cowboys, your argument becomes relevant when its time to pay Zeke. He's only in year 3 of his rookie deal. We have a 5th year option and then a franchise tag. We have him for 4 more years before having to come up with big money or let him walk.

We don't have the luxury of what Seattle did in 2013. They had multiple great defensive players on cheap contracts, they had their young QB on a cheap contract - they could afford Lynch. You're the one who brought up his Super Bowl performance, and I mentioning in that Super Bowl, he did very little. Their defense is what won them the Super Bowl - 13 of their 17 games that year, teams were kept to 20 points or lower. Then in the playoffs, the most scored against them was 17 points. It's not as though the offense had a ton to do.

In the Super Bowl where they relied on Lynch - they lost. He was also terrible in goal line situations, so don't try the "Well if they handed it off" - that wasn't a sure bet. The moment that defense slipped a little, they took the L.

You continue to state there is no "causation" - bud, I am not saying the reason for NOT winning a Super Bowl is on the RB - I am saying RB simply isn't valuable enough to pay them top dollar because they aren't the reason you get to a Super Bowl. They are a luxury, and if you don't have a defense or a QB - it doesn't matter who you have at RB, you aren't making it. In the cap era, you pay the positions you KNOW help result in getting a trophy. That's the trenches and the QB.

Zeke is going to want top dollar and a contract extension and fast - he has a solid case that he is the BEST RB in the league right now - he is not going to wait around for a contract.
 

atlantacowboy

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We don't have the luxury of what Seattle did in 2013. They had multiple great defensive players on cheap contracts, they had their young QB on a cheap contract - they could afford Lynch. You're the one who brought up his Super Bowl performance, and I mentioning in that Super Bowl, he did very little. Their defense is what won them the Super Bowl - 13 of their 17 games that year, teams were kept to 20 points or lower. Then in the playoffs, the most scored against them was 17 points. It's not as though the offense had a ton to do.

In the Super Bowl where they relied on Lynch - they lost. He was also terrible in goal line situations, so don't try the "Well if they handed it off" - that wasn't a sure bet. The moment that defense slipped a little, they took the L.

You continue to state there is no "causation" - bud, I am not saying the reason for NOT winning a Super Bowl is on the RB - I am saying RB simply isn't valuable enough to pay them top dollar because they aren't the reason you get to a Super Bowl. They are a luxury, and if you don't have a defense or a QB - it doesn't matter who you have at RB, you aren't making it. In the cap era, you pay the positions you KNOW help result in getting a trophy. That's the trenches and the QB.

Zeke is going to want top dollar and a contract extension and fast - he has a solid case that he is the BEST RB in the league right now - he is not going to wait around for a contract.

We don't really disagree on paying a rb. I don't want to pay Zeke either. We have 3 cheap years left on his contract. We don't have to pay him. That said, our stupid GM will pay him b/c how dumb do we look using a top 4 pick on a guy and not resign him? Jerry does not like looking dumb.

I do think we can compete for super bowls with Zeke on his rookie deal............what holds this team back year after year is coaching.
 

Hadenough

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The way i view this is your not gonna win a SB even with an elite RB. You must have a elite QB or one that is capable of playing at an extremely high level through the playoffs like Foles of Eli. The Patriots Michel is a good RB but he is no Zeke or Gurley. But Bradys ability to pick a defense apart is what helps Michel.
 

kskboys

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Peterson was a great runner, has done it over a long period of time. No doubt.

But what you are failing to see, and its a trap you have fallen into over and over, you refuse to give credit to anyone who falls out side of your narrowly defined definition of what elite it. As I said before You keep moving the goal posts in order to satisfy your argument. There is nothing anyone can say that you cant counter with well they arent elite enough.

Running backs do more than run with the ball. If Rice puts up comparable yards to Peterson, whether the ball is handed off to him or thrown to him, he is still gaining those yards. It puts his play on par with the one guy you described as "elite".

Your views of stats are narrow minded, and basically show a one dimension pattern of thinking. You lay out criteria that is impossible to meet because you never define it in order to "prove" a point. Thats not an argument, thats a three year old yelling "Im taking my ball away cuz you're a meanie!" Based on your own words there has been only 1 elite running back in the league in the '10's, Adrian Peterson. How can anyone populate a list of "elite" running backs that have contributed to winning a Super Bowl when there has been only one "elite" back in your designated time period?

So whats the point of asking the question/making the point if the answer is a foregone conclusion?

But, in the end you are dead wrong. You wouldn't know an elite back unless someone on ESPN said so... Adrian Peterson is the only elite back in the 2010's is utterly laughable...

Heres one for you: Sony Michel is an elite Running Back. Julian Edelman is an Elite Receiver.

You don't like it? Don't think he's an elite back? Tough, you're wrong. And the reason why your wrong is Stats Lie. You took a look and saw 931 yards in 2018... I look and see 981 yards in 13 games, another 350 yards and 6 tds in the post season AND more importantly 38:20, 43:59, & 33:10.

In case you don't understand - that's NE's time of possession in the three post season games they played this year. That is not possible with out the production of Sony Michel. The Patriots won because of him. That is what makes him elite. Not some stat line on a piece of paper.

Roster Building is much more complex than saying we have to do this we cant do that. Each piece has to balance out somewhere else. The biggest fault of the Cowboys roster is not them willing to commit 12 or 15 million to Zewok ... The cap is so high right now, its meaningless.The cap and the burden of signing one or two players to large contracts can be ameliorated over time and restructures. 99% of all those large deals are just for show. Most players never see the back half of the deals. The biggest problem is the coaches you all have kept around. They have done more to waste the talent on your roster than any few million dollars here or there ever will.


TLDR: your whole argument is bs.
Dang, Pape, that is one well written piece, and spot on!!!!
 

mattjames2010

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Peterson was a great runner, has done it over a long period of time. No doubt.

But what you are failing to see, and its a trap you have fallen into over and over, you refuse to give credit to anyone who falls out side of your narrowly defined definition of what elite it. As I said before You keep moving the goal posts in order to satisfy your argument. There is nothing anyone can say that you cant counter with well they arent elite enough.

Running backs do more than run with the ball. If Rice puts up comparable yards to Peterson, whether the ball is handed off to him or thrown to him, he is still gaining those yards. It puts his play on par with the one guy you described as "elite".

Your views of stats are narrow minded, and basically show a one dimension pattern of thinking. You lay out criteria that is impossible to meet because you never define it in order to "prove" a point. Thats not an argument, thats a three year old yelling "Im taking my ball away cuz you're a meanie!" Based on your own words there has been only 1 elite running back in the league in the '10's, Adrian Peterson. How can anyone populate a list of "elite" running backs that have contributed to winning a Super Bowl when there has been only one "elite" back in your designated time period?

So whats the point of asking the question/making the point if the answer is a foregone conclusion?

But, in the end you are dead wrong. You wouldn't know an elite back unless someone on ESPN said so... Adrian Peterson is the only elite back in the 2010's is utterly laughable...

Heres one for you: Sony Michel is an elite Running Back. Julian Edelman is an Elite Receiver.

You don't like it? Don't think he's an elite back? Tough, you're wrong. And the reason why your wrong is Stats Lie. You took a look and saw 931 yards in 2018... I look and see 981 yards in 13 games, another 350 yards and 6 tds in the post season AND more importantly 38:20, 43:59, & 33:10.

In case you don't understand - that's NE's time of possession in the three post season games they played this year. That is not possible with out the production of Sony Michel. The Patriots won because of him. That is what makes him elite. Not some stat line on a piece of paper.

Roster Building is much more complex than saying we have to do this we cant do that. Each piece has to balance out somewhere else. The biggest fault of the Cowboys roster is not them willing to commit 12 or 15 million to Zewok ... The cap is so high right now, its meaningless.The cap and the burden of signing one or two players to large contracts can be ameliorated over time and restructures. 99% of all those large deals are just for show. Most players never see the back half of the deals. The biggest problem is the coaches you all have kept around. They have done more to waste the talent on your roster than any few million dollars here or there ever will.


TLDR: your whole argument is bs.

> Running backs do more than run with the ball. If Rice puts up comparable yards to Peterson, whether the ball is handed off to him or thrown to him, he is still gaining those yards. It puts his play on par with the one guy you described as "elite".

This is just completely wrong. Peterson's 2012 season is going to be far more remembered than what Ray Rice did in 2009 and 2011. Let's take a look at all-purpose yards from those years

2010

Jamal Charles - 1,900
Arian Foster - 2,221

2011

Maurice Jones Drew - 1,964
Arian Foster - 1,841

2012

Adrian Peterson - 2,200+
Doug Martin - 1,900 +
Marshawn Lynch - 1,700+

Do you see where we are going with this? The "2,000" all-purpose yards, and I'm even excluding other RBs who had impact on special teams that put them way over 2,000, isn't as special as RBs who rush for over 2,000 yards? Stop comparing it. One is far more rare than the other. Also, "receiving" for an RB rarely, if ever, tells the entire story - take Zeke for instance, he had 77 receptions but wasn't a dynamic receiving threat. Moving on.

> Your views of stats are narrow minded, and basically show a one dimension pattern of thinking. You lay out criteria that is impossible to meet because you never define it in order to "prove" a point.

Nothing about my criteria is "impossible" to meet - do you know what "impossible" means? I stated the one true elite RB of this decade was Adrian Peterson. So, obviously, it's not "impossible". Understand the words you use when you respond to me.

> But, in the end you are dead wrong. You wouldn't know an elite back unless someone on ESPN said so... Adrian Peterson is the only elite back in the 2010's is utterly laughable...

Now you're just getting big mad. Simply stating something is "wrong" is not an argument. And now you acknowledge I have set a standard of what an elite RB looks like - so, nothing was "impossible". My entire point has been that the RB position is so vastly unspectacular compared to other positions, that "elite" doesn't come around often in the modern NFL because the difference between good and great is minimal. Understand my argument. Moving on....

> Heres one for you: Sony Michel is an elite Running Back. Julian Edelman is an Elite Receiver.

Neither are elite. Lamar Miller had 900+ yards rushing and 5 TDs and even more receiving yards, is Lamar Miller "elite" now? You're lowering the bar to what "elite" is and you're allowing in a whole lot of average, bud.

I won't entertain the rest. LOL Edelman "elite".
 

Pape

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> Running backs do more than run with the ball. If Rice puts up comparable yards to Peterson, whether the ball is handed off to him or thrown to him, he is still gaining those yards. It puts his play on par with the one guy you described as "elite".

This is just completely wrong. Peterson's 2012 season is going to be far more remembered than what Ray Rice did in 2009 and 2011. Let's take a look at all-purpose yards from those years

2010

Jamal Charles - 1,900
Arian Foster - 2,221

2011

Maurice Jones Drew - 1,964
Arian Foster - 1,841

2012

Adrian Peterson - 2,200+
Doug Martin - 1,900 +
Marshawn Lynch - 1,700+

Do you see where we are going with this? The "2,000" all-purpose yards, and I'm even excluding other RBs who had impact on special teams that put them way over 2,000, isn't as special as RBs who rush for over 2,000 yards? Stop comparing it. One is far more rare than the other. Also, "receiving" for an RB rarely, if ever, tells the entire story - take Zeke for instance, he had 77 receptions but wasn't a dynamic receiving threat. Moving on.

> Your views of stats are narrow minded, and basically show a one dimension pattern of thinking. You lay out criteria that is impossible to meet because you never define it in order to "prove" a point.

Nothing about my criteria is "impossible" to meet - do you know what "impossible" means? I stated the one true elite RB of this decade was Adrian Peterson. So, obviously, it's not "impossible". Understand the words you use when you respond to me.

> But, in the end you are dead wrong. You wouldn't know an elite back unless someone on ESPN said so... Adrian Peterson is the only elite back in the 2010's is utterly laughable...

Now you're just getting big mad. Simply stating something is "wrong" is not an argument. And now you acknowledge I have set a standard of what an elite RB looks like - so, nothing was "impossible". My entire point has been that the RB position is so vastly unspectacular compared to other positions, that "elite" doesn't come around often in the modern NFL because the difference between good and great is minimal. Understand my argument. Moving on....

> Heres one for you: Sony Michel is an elite Running Back. Julian Edelman is an Elite Receiver.

Neither are elite. Lamar Miller had 900+ yards rushing and 5 TDs and even more receiving yards, is Lamar Miller "elite" now? You're lowering the bar to what "elite" is and you're allowing in a whole lot of average, bud.

I won't entertain the rest. LOL Edelman "elite".

of course adrian petersons 2012 year will be remembered more than whatever rice ever did in his entire career. nature of the beast, when it comes to high profile players vs those players that have been villified...

let me just say this - 2009-2012, one guy gained 6,881 yards from scrimmage... the other guy gained 7,506 yards from scrimmage ... I will let you figure out which is which

but hey, what do I know, right?

and i don't care about all purpose yards. neither rice or peterson made a living returning kicks... combined they have less than 25 regular season kick/punt returns... so i don't know why you are trying to drag that in
 

kskboys

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> Running backs do more than run with the ball. If Rice puts up comparable yards to Peterson, whether the ball is handed off to him or thrown to him, he is still gaining those yards. It puts his play on par with the one guy you described as "elite".

This is just completely wrong. Peterson's 2012 season is going to be far more remembered than what Ray Rice did in 2009 and 2011. Let's take a look at all-purpose yards from those years

2010

Jamal Charles - 1,900
Arian Foster - 2,221

2011

Maurice Jones Drew - 1,964
Arian Foster - 1,841

2012

Adrian Peterson - 2,200+
Doug Martin - 1,900 +
Marshawn Lynch - 1,700+

Do you see where we are going with this? The "2,000" all-purpose yards, and I'm even excluding other RBs who had impact on special teams that put them way over 2,000, isn't as special as RBs who rush for over 2,000 yards? Stop comparing it. One is far more rare than the other. Also, "receiving" for an RB rarely, if ever, tells the entire story - take Zeke for instance, he had 77 receptions but wasn't a dynamic receiving threat. Moving on.

> Your views of stats are narrow minded, and basically show a one dimension pattern of thinking. You lay out criteria that is impossible to meet because you never define it in order to "prove" a point.

Nothing about my criteria is "impossible" to meet - do you know what "impossible" means? I stated the one true elite RB of this decade was Adrian Peterson. So, obviously, it's not "impossible". Understand the words you use when you respond to me.

> But, in the end you are dead wrong. You wouldn't know an elite back unless someone on ESPN said so... Adrian Peterson is the only elite back in the 2010's is utterly laughable...

Now you're just getting big mad. Simply stating something is "wrong" is not an argument. And now you acknowledge I have set a standard of what an elite RB looks like - so, nothing was "impossible". My entire point has been that the RB position is so vastly unspectacular compared to other positions, that "elite" doesn't come around often in the modern NFL because the difference between good and great is minimal. Understand my argument. Moving on....

> Heres one for you: Sony Michel is an elite Running Back. Julian Edelman is an Elite Receiver.

Neither are elite. Lamar Miller had 900+ yards rushing and 5 TDs and even more receiving yards, is Lamar Miller "elite" now? You're lowering the bar to what "elite" is and you're allowing in a whole lot of average, bud.

I won't entertain the rest. LOL Edelman "elite".
Edelmann is the best slot WR in the game. Why would you have a problem referring to him as elite?
 

mattjames2010

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Edelmann is the best slot WR in the game. Why would you have a problem referring to him as elite?

He has 2 1,000 yard seasons to his name, no double digit TDs, averages 10.8 yards a catch, never been to a pro-bowl and not a first/second team all-pro.

Brown, Jones, Hopkins, and on the edge is Mike Evans.

Edelman is a very good player with some great moments on a great team. He, however, is not "elite".

And again, if Michel is elite....what is Lamar Miller?
 

Pape

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And again, if Michel is elite....what is Lamar Miller?

Lamar Miller is a veteran running back who plays for the miami dolphins, who never turned up on the miami injury report. who has never carried his team thru the post season.

Michel is a rookie running back, who was hurt all of camp and was on the injury list for 8 out of the first 11 weeks of the season, who stepped up and performed at an elite level when it mattered most. The Pats game plan in the playoffs was to let Michel run.

He Ran, They Won.

so... what else ya got?
 

sean10mm

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Edelman is a classic TEAM hall of fame/ring of honor/whatever you call it kind of guy. A guy who was crucial in the team's greatest moments, but who doesn't have the career stats to justify the Hall of Fame. He's the kind of player you have a team hall of fame for in the first place.

It is kind of funny how Edelman is the anti-Welker, a guy who had insane regular season stats forever but who never came through in the clutch. Edelman has very ordinary regular season stats but becomes a human cheat code in the playoffs. SB 49 he's the team's leading receiver and scored the go-ahead touchdown, 51 he has the impossible highlight reel catch to keep the crazy comeback drive going, 53 he was just unguardable all day. That little dude has nuts the size of coconuts.
 

mattjames2010

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Lamar Miller is a veteran running back who plays for the miami dolphins, who never turned up on the miami injury report. who has never carried his team thru the post season.

Michel is a rookie running back, who was hurt all of camp and was on the injury list for 8 out of the first 11 weeks of the season, who stepped up and performed at an elite level when it mattered most. The Pats game plan in the playoffs was to let Michel run.

He Ran, They Won.

so... what else ya got?

Patriots have won with other RBs in the past, none of which were "elite"

A post-season performance does not make someone "elite". That's a great playoff run, similar to Flacco, again...not elite. Nothing, at all here, justifies him being an "elite" RB - not a damn thing. There is not stat that shows this. Yet again, his regular season numbers have him on par with Lamar miller.

Edelman sure AS HELL isn't elite. LOL

You lost. NEXT!
 

mattjames2010

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of course adrian petersons 2012 year will be remembered more than whatever rice ever did in his entire career. nature of the beast, when it comes to high profile players vs those players that have been villified...

let me just say this - 2009-2012, one guy gained 6,881 yards from scrimmage... the other guy gained 7,506 yards from scrimmage ... I will let you figure out which is which

but hey, what do I know, right?

and i don't care about all purpose yards. neither rice or peterson made a living returning kicks... combined they have less than 25 regular season kick/punt returns... so i don't know why you are trying to drag that in

> of course adrian petersons 2012 year will be remembered more than whatever rice ever did in his entire career. nature of the beast, when it comes to high profile players vs those players that have been villified...

Adrian Peterson beat his child and had photos of his child bleeding released along with losing a season of his career because of it. Ray Rice was simply never an elite player, he was a very good RB with a couple of great seasons, but nothing out of the ordinary for RBs. Peterson's 2012 season is remembered due to coming back from an ACL injury, having some down games early on in the season, before tearing up the league and dragging his team to the playoffs and taking the MVP award.

> let me just say this - 2009-2012, one guy gained 6,881 yards from scrimmage... the other guy gained 7,506 yards from scrimmage ... I will let you figure out which is which

2009 and 2011 were Rice's best seasons, neither of which were spectacular and as I showed, the high total scrimmage yards for an RB is not a rarity. Getting 2,000+ yards running is. Again, one RB is elite the other was a very good RB with some great years. There's nothing else to it.

> but hey, what do I know, right?

Apparently not much. "Edelmen is ELITE!" - Goodness.
 

Pape

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Patriots have won with other RBs in the past, none of which were "elite"

A post-season performance does not make someone "elite". That's a great playoff run, similar to Flacco, again...not elite. Nothing, at all here, justifies him being an "elite" RB - not a damn thing. There is not stat that shows this. Yet again, his regular season numbers have him on par with Lamar miller.

Edelman sure AS HELL isn't elite. LOL

You lost. NEXT!

Matt, re: Michel v Lamar, context matters. That's what doesn't show on your "super secret only i know what an elite player is is" stat sheet.

Post season performance doesn't make some one elite? huh ... well it sure as hell helps make the argument that they are elite

Edelman is the best at his position in the league. Who's better in the slot? ... yeah, elite.


> of course adrian petersons 2012 year will be remembered more than whatever rice ever did in his entire career. nature of the beast, when it comes to high profile players vs those players that have been villified...

Adrian Peterson beat his child and had photos of his child bleeding released along with losing a season of his career because of it. Ray Rice was simply never an elite player, he was a very good RB with a couple of great seasons, but nothing out of the ordinary for RBs. Peterson's 2012 season is remembered due to coming back from an ACL injury, having some down games early on in the season, before tearing up the league and dragging his team to the playoffs and taking the MVP award.

> let me just say this - 2009-2012, one guy gained 6,881 yards from scrimmage... the other guy gained 7,506 yards from scrimmage ... I will let you figure out which is which

2009 and 2011 were Rice's best seasons, neither of which were spectacular and as I showed, the high total scrimmage yards for an RB is not a rarity. Getting 2,000+ yards running is. Again, one RB is elite the other was a very good RB with some great years. There's nothing else to it.

> but hey, what do I know, right?

Apparently not much. "Edelmen is ELITE!" - Goodness.

you really going to compare the adrian peterson photos to the ray rice video? Okaaaay...
and by out performing an elite player over his best years, Rice was playing at an elite level... okay... that works for me.

and yup, Edelman is still the best at his position... so, yeah, elite
 

kskboys

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He has 2 1,000 yard seasons to his name, no double digit TDs, averages 10.8 yards a catch, never been to a pro-bowl and not a first/second team all-pro.

Brown, Jones, Hopkins, and on the edge is Mike Evans.

Edelman is a very good player with some great moments on a great team. He, however, is not "elite".

And again, if Michel is elite....what is Lamar Miller?
You do like yourself some stats, hey?
 

kskboys

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Patriots have won with other RBs in the past, none of which were "elite"

A post-season performance does not make someone "elite". That's a great playoff run, similar to Flacco, again...not elite. Nothing, at all here, justifies him being an "elite" RB - not a damn thing. There is not stat that shows this. Yet again, his regular season numbers have him on par with Lamar miller.

Edelman sure AS HELL isn't elite. LOL

You lost. NEXT!
Declaring yourself the winner in the middle of an argument is some pretty weak stuff, dude!!!
 
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