Amari Cooper and the Antonio Brown Trade

[mattjames2010]

To put the blame solely on Amari for some of those low yardage games is being disingenuous considering he was acquired mid-season and had to learn the playbook on the fly. It's also common for top WR's to put up low totals (go look at Tyreek Hill's game logs from last year) for a variety of reasons - double coverage, missed reads by the QB, run dominant scheme, etc. etc., not to mention being traded mid-season.

And like I mentioned in a previous post, you can try to minimize his numbers by pointing out the volatility in yardage, but he was on a 1,300 yard 11 TD pace with us. While learning the playbook on the fly. With a terrible OC. With no chemistry with Dak. AND he balled out in the playoffs.

You just had to be that guy.

He's had this problem with two teams - so yes, I'm going to put the blame on him. And no, it is not common for WRs to have a big offensive day and then become a ghost the next few weeks. Tyreek Hill is a known boom or bust player, he's the best of them and Cooper is no Hill who has incredible athletic ability. And last year, Hill had 1 game with under 40 yards, Cooper had 8. (let's also not forget he had 2 fumbles lost for us in that stretch as well|)

Again, his "pace" was inflated by two games. A 180 yard game and a 200+ yard game - yeah, that's fantastic for those games, it doesn't tell the story of the whole.

 

[mattjames2010]

The whole world knows Amari Cooper helped our offense big time this year...Except you

Helped our offense to get our first shutout since 2003.

 

[visionary]

Some have said that "Gruden has replaced Amari Cooper and two mid-round picks with Antonio Brown and a first-rounder. That's a ridiculous upgrade" but is it really? Let's break it down.

Amari Cooper (24 year old) Top 5 Pick was traded for a Late 1st rounder= Massive fail. Based on what he did in Dallas after he left, the Raiders and Gruden had massive egg on their face

Antonio Brown (31 Year Old) was acquired for a 3rd and 5th round pick and paid $50 million dollars just to attempt to remove the egg that's on their face from the Cooper trade. Problem with the trade is AB is older, he has an attitude problem and the trade does not fit the Raider Model of rebuilding. Production wise Antonio Brown who was catching 100-120 balls a year with 12-15 TD's will probably be a 70-80 catch guy in Oakland and score 7-10 TD's next year and then down from there. He may breakout in the first season to prove himself but by the time the Raiders get to Las Vegas in 2020, AB will be 32 and clearly on the back 9 of his career, not a great situation for the Las Vegas Raiders. They paid for past production. They will roll into Vegas with the "Oldest" WR tandem in the NFL 35 year old Jordy Nelson and 32 year old Antonio Brown. Would have been awesome back in 2015, great work Gruden.

In the end:

Raiders Lose - 24 year old Amari Cooper (Top 5 Pick), 3rd round pick, 5th Round Pick

Raiders Gain - Late 1st rounder and an aging 31 year old veteran with a $50 Million dollar contract

EPIC FAIL

Man, the koolaid must have been really really strong

I think that over the next 5 years Brown out performs Cooper

Let's see who turns out to be right

 

[Brooksey]

Helped our offense to get our first shutout since 2003.

Well it is a team game. He doesn't have Big Ben throwing him the ball or Pittsburgh's offense. It's the JG clown show, come on

 

[mattjames2010]

Well it is a team game. He doesn't have Big Ben throwing him the ball or Pittsburgh's offense. It's the JG clown show, come on

LOL now it's a team game.

The entire point is that he came in and elevated us to some higher standard on offense. We had stretches in 2018 and 2017 where we couldn't score crap and then had 3-4 weeks where we put up numbers. Nothing changed. We were still the inconsistent offensive team, just with a better defense.

 

[JBell]

He's had this problem with two teams - so yes, I'm going to put the blame on him. And no, it is not common for WRs to have a big offensive day and then become a ghost the next few weeks. Tyreek Hill is a known boom or bust player, he's the best of them and Cooper is no Hill who has incredible athletic ability. And last year, Hill had 1 game with under 40 yards, Cooper had 8. (let's also not forget he had 2 fumbles lost for us in that stretch as well|)

Again, his "pace" was inflated by two games. A 180 yard game and a 200+ yard game - yeah, that's fantastic for those games, it doesn't tell the story of the whole.

Michael Thomas had receiving games of 47, 38, 40, 49, and 29 in the regular season and a 36 yard game in the playoffs last year. With Drew Brees as his QB.

Must be a bum.



(He was named first-team All-Pro)

 

[CouchCoach]

The difference between the two trades is that the Cowboys put themselves in that situation starting out the season with that WR corps and had to do something to fix that but they didn't expect the dividends to pay out as soon as they did. Cooper was the Cowboys #1 draft pick for 2019.

As far as numbers on WR's, there are variables that affect that. Check Brown's numbers with Rothliesberger at QB vs any other QB. Just because a WR appears to disappear does not mean he isn't getting open. After Beasley and Hurns comments last season, I went back and looked and they were right, they were getting NFL open and not getting the balls they should have.

 

[Brooksey]

Man, the koolaid must have been really really strong

I think that over the next 5 years Brown out performs Cooper

Let's see who turns out to be right

Not really bro...no kool-aid here actually I'd like to slap our front office upside the head. I'm not big on aging Wr's or Rb's who have been already paid. His name can be Jerry Rice i'd say the same thing. Raiders still need a "young" #1 WR, they had it and lost it cuz Gruden allowed Coopers/Mack's agent to pick a fight...dummy. I'll take your bet on the 5 year production Cooper > AB

 

[CWR]

Great thread, was thinking about posting the same premise.

$30.1M guaranteed. How much will Coop command in his new Cowboy deal?

Thats a scary thought.

Cooper has half a season of production for us, that was preceded by lackluster play for two and a half seasons. (Not positive on that number) His history isn't close to ABs dominance.

HOWEVER, he came into the league very young and has produced whenever the climate of his team isn't toxic.

He also appears to be a great teammate and unselfish player. His difference to our team was massive. Coop is an instant upgrade to the entire offense, especially the QB.

He will definitely get paid and he deserves it. Imo though, he shouldn't be getting AB money.

 

[visionary]

Not really bro...no kool-aid here actually I'd like to slap our front office upside the head. I'm not big on aging Wr's or Rb's who have been already paid. His name can be Jerry Rice i'd say the same thing. Raiders still need a "young" #1 WR, they had it and lost it cuz Gruden allowed Coopers/Mack's agent to pick a fight...dummy. I'll take your bet on the 5 year production Cooper > AB

AB is a head case but as a WR there is no comparison between him and Cooper

 

[mattjames2010]

Michael Thomas had receiving games of 47, 38, 40, 49, and 29 in the regular season and a 36 yard game in the playoffs last year. With Drew Brees as his QB.

Must be a bum.

I don't consider Thomas to be a top WR - despite his numbers. It's the Saints offense, they get 1,000 yard receivers nearly every season. So, you know, you're not really countering me. Another WR being inconsistent is not a good argument for Cooper being good.

And I didn't call Cooper a "bum" - I called him inconsistent and with questionable hands, both of which are accurate.

 

[Brooksey]

AB is a head case but as a WR there is no comparison between him and Cooper

I'd have to see Amari in Pittsburgh's offense first, both great route runners

 

[Brooksey]

I don't consider Thomas to be a top WR - despite his numbers. It's the Saints offense, they get 1,000 yard receivers nearly every season. So, you know, you're not really countering me. Another WR being inconsistent is not a good argument for Cooper being good.

And I didn't call Cooper a "bum" - I called him inconsistent and with questionable hands, both of which are accurate.

You don't consider Michael Thomas a top WR? Guy is a freak, you're wrong

 

[JBell]

I don't consider Thomas to be a top WR - despite his numbers. It's the Saints offense, they get 1,000 yard receivers nearly every season. So, you know, you're not really countering me. Another WR being inconsistent is not a good argument for Cooper being good.

And I didn't call Cooper a "bum" - I called him inconsistent and with questionable hands, both of which are accurate.

-Doesn't consider a guy named First Team All-Pro a top WR.

Yeah I think we're done here.

 

[visionary]

I'd have to see Amari in Pittsburgh's offense first, both great route runners

To me there are 2 signs of a great player:

Can you produce at the critical times?

Can you do that consistently?

AB= 2 /2
Cooper= 0/2

 

[mattjames2010]

You don't consider Michael Thomas a top WR? Guy is a freak, you're wrong

A guy who is a "freak" who had a stretch of like 6 games where he did next to nothing. That's not "top" to me - having a bad game is one thing, disappearing in the months of December/January is another. He had a good playoff game and then turned around and had a 4 catch for 36 yards against the Rams.

Hopkins is a freak. Brown is a freak. Julio Jones is a freak. Michael Thomas is a WR product of the Saints system that has been crapping out big WR numbers for over a decade.

 

[mattjames2010]

-Doesn't consider a guy named First Team All-Pro a top WR.

Yeah I think we're done here.

You can be "done", that doesn't make anything you said analytical.

Show me what Thomas did from week 12 to week 17. He didn't have a single game above 10 yards a catch, he had 1 TD, 1 100+ yard receiving game.

 

[Brooksey]

To me there are 2 signs of a great player:

Can you produce at the critical times?

Can you do that consistently?

AB= 2 /2
Cooper= 0/2

I'd say coming in this year mid-season and producing was a critical time + 1 for Cooper

 

[Nightman]

To me there are 2 signs of a great player:

Can you produce at the critical times?

Can you do that consistently?

AB= 2 /2
Cooper= 0/2

Like an elimination game..... how did AB do last year?

 

[Garrettop]

I think that over the next 5 years Brown out performs Cooper

Brown is going to go from peak WR age to greyhair status in those 5 years, while Cooper will head towards peak WR age. Different offenses. Diff QBs. What will you be comparing?