Garrett’s strengths and weaknesses-Can he improve as a HC?

glimmerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,956
Reaction score
29,842
Probably so.

It was a mistake to not give the youngest group of starters in the league more pre season snaps. They just started too slow.

I would imagine they will play more this year.
I think losing Fredbeard and also a early twing another’s knee freaked him out. JJ was never gonna let Elliot take a snap in preseason.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
The crossroads for Garrett is whether or not he can learn to be more flexible, adaptive and creative...or listen to those who are. His stubbornness to stick to his scheme and ways of preparing are and have been a roadblock for this team.

As I said in the OP, in today’s NFL, the best NFL HCs are those that can adapt to quickly changing circumstances. Creativity is at a premium now because the talent levels between teams is becoming thinner. If Garrett can’t change, I don’t expect much change in results.
My question isn't will he improve but can he improve? He's a smart guy and doesn't operate in a vacuum, whether he admits his shortcomings or not, he is aware of them and maybe they're not correctible? Maybe he subscribes to that "this is who I am, take me or leave me"?

We all say he's got to get more creative, how in the hell does he do that if he's not creative? He might be so left brained that this is the only way he knows how to do it. When he had to step in with Turner's offense, that wasn't creative at all. It was simple and totally dependent on player execution but he played with the best players of that time is executing plays. All he had to do was execute the plays called. Isn't his offense based on that now and the only curve in that road was his improvisational QB making plays look creative.

And every time you want to call him out on a play that misfired, ask yourself 'was that the play called or the play executed that failed'? The QB misses a wide open receiver for a TD and some will ask "why'd he call that"? The LG gets shoved into the QB, why'd he call that? The OL isn't opening holes, why is he calling run plays?

My problem with Garrett's play calling and Linehan executing his play book is all about the lack of tactics when strategy isn't working. Well, that's the same problem with 80%+ of these OC's and HC's calling plays. How many of these HC's or coordinators have you seen that excel at in game adjustments? Damned few. McVay is the boy wonder and he couldn't figure out how to handle Belichick's D.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Probably so.

It was a mistake to not give the youngest group of starters in the league more pre season snaps. They just started too slow.

I would imagine they will play more this year.
The HC is in a contract year and there's a neophyte OC and you think they're going to risk players in meaningless games?

It is an even playing field because the other teams will not do that either, no HC is risking his job in pretend games which is why the owners will push to change two to real games because they cannot force their HC's to risk their jobs playing too many starters. Even that 3rd pretend game being the rehearsal isn't that any longer.

It is a slow start for all of them and it's a real sloppy spectacle on opening weekend.
 

CATCH17

1st Round Pick
Messages
66,924
Reaction score
84,287
As we near the 2019 season, hope for us Cowboys fans is high. And it is not unfounded. This year’s roster is loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. We may have the most talent we’ve had since the 90s.

We start 2019 with Jason Garrett entering his 9th full season as head coach of the Cowboys. Only 5 other current NFL head coaches have a longer tenure: Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh and Pete Carroll. All 5 of those HCs have won a Super Bowl. Garrett does have a decent record, at 77-59 and has won 3 NFC East divisional titles. But it’s the playoffs where he has struggled.

Jason Garrett has some strengths. There’s no way you can have a winning record as a HC over nearly a decade without having some strengths. IMO, here are Garrett’s strengths as a HC:
  • He motivates his teams to play hard. I’ve never seen a Garrett team just quit.
  • He is a decent judge of talent. Garrett has to be given some credit for increasing the talent level here since he became HC.
  • He has a consistent model of team processes. We laugh at his “process” but he is consistent with how he prepares his team, using most of the stuff used by Nick Saban.
  • He does not make excuses. Unlike his boss, Garrett doesn’t blame injuries or make other excuses like blaming the refs for losses.
  • He somehow manages to get decent results with the most meddlesome owner in sports.
With those strengths also come his weaknesses. In fact, if Garrett cannot improve some of these areas of weakness, I believe we have probably seen all we will ever see from his teams. Here are his weaknesses:
  • A lack of adaptability. Garrett’s greatest weakness is his inability to adjust on the fly, either in game or even in season. This is what has killed us in the playoffs.
  • Stubborn adherence to his schemes and philosophies, even when they don’t work. He will stick to a game plan or player even when it’s getting pummeled. (See Atlanta, 2017, or rams playoff game last year)
  • He is a poor in game manager. We have seen this over and over since 2010. He consistently does not manage the clock, timeouts, or situational decisions well. This is another area that can absolutely kill you in the playoffs. (See GB playoff loss in 2016)
  • He is not creative. Being creative with schemes and use of personnel is critical in today’s game. Because of the salary cap, talent margins among all teams is much thinner than in the 90s. Creativity is a major skill needed in today’s game.
As a whole, Jason Garrett is a better than average NFL HC, as his record indicates. But if we are going to ever see what we all hope as Cowboys fans- that we finally at least have another deep playoff run, then those consistent problems with adaptability, creativity and in-game management must change. Without those changes, we may have gone as far as we can with Garrett.

Can Garrett improve in these areas? Your thoughts?


He is what he is.

After 10 years he’s not fooling anyone but the homers.

Next Landry they said....
 

Tangle_Foot

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,181
Reaction score
28,380
After 9 years I don't know how much Garrett can change. He's a trailer not a truck with a quarterback that's a bus driver and a GM that's a speed bump. Heaven Help Us:)
 

AsthmaField

Outta bounds
Messages
26,326
Reaction score
43,954
I think losing Fredbeard and also a early twing another’s knee freaked him out. JJ was never gonna let Elliot take a snap in preseason.
You might be right. The fear of backlash from getting a starter hurt in preseason might have played into it as much as the actual fear of losing said starter.

I see that as a negative in Garrett’s coaching, which a lot of people do: Just doing the conservative move. What is expected.

He needs to just do what is needed, consequences be damned. Go for it on fourth more. Play young starters because they need it, even if most rest their guys. Be less predictable, etc.

I know a lot of people say these things, but I’m just saying that even though I don’t hate Garrett like so many do... I still see that he needs to change some things if he wants to take the next step.

IOW, I still hope that he could be the guy we need, but he will have to adapt and change things that have proven to be a negative. Show us that he’s learning and growing as a coach along the way.
 

AsthmaField

Outta bounds
Messages
26,326
Reaction score
43,954
The HC is in a contract year and there's a neophyte OC and you think they're going to risk players in meaningless games?

It is an even playing field because the other teams will not do that either, no HC is risking his job in pretend games which is why the owners will push to change two to real games because they cannot force their HC's to risk their jobs playing too many starters. Even that 3rd pretend game being the rehearsal isn't that any longer.

It is a slow start for all of them and it's a real sloppy spectacle on opening weekend.
I don’t think the starters will play a lot, no... however I think they’ll play more than last year when they basically didn’t play at all. EzE, Tyron, etc. probably won’t, but I expect Most to do more than last year, yes.
 

TwoDeep3

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,387
Reaction score
17,212
As a whole, Jason Garrett is a better than average NFL HC, as his record indicates.
Can Garrett improve in these areas? Your thoughts?

Then explain the three 8-8 seasons. You'll say that was then. But I believe it shows what happens when Garrett has less than quality talent. Like it does with most coaches.

I'll ask you, Bob, the sam thing I have asked this board many times. No one seems to want to ansxwer the question.

Campo went 5-11 three straight times.

He had a beat-up Troy Aikman his first year. A rookie Quincy Carter his second. And a first year Qiincy Carter his third.

Garrett had Romo, who was at the height of his career stats wise. He three for 4100+ in 2011, 4900+ in 2012, and 3900+ in 2013.

Romo's asser ratings were in the high 90's and one year was over 100.

Quincy was in the 70's and Aikman was in the 80's.

My contention and question to you is this.

The only difference between Garrett and Campo was the QB they had.

Can youn deny this?
 

Cowfan75

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,960
Reaction score
7,769
Garrett doesn't make excuses? Are you kidding me? Have you ever listen to his post-games? He might not blame injuries or officials, but he absolutely throws players under the bus while NEVER admitting that he simply got outcoached, or he shouldn't have called the timeouts when he did, or that he mismanaged the end of a game (again), or that he made no halftime adjustments (again). We win with the talent we have, and that's it, not with coaching. Best thing I can say is that the team doesn't quit on him.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
yea, a bad call made by a mediocre coach

If you're talking about Garrett, he doesn't make the defensive calls. And if you think the problem on that play was with the call, I'm not sure what to tell you. Rodgers had too long to throw, there were missed holds on the play, and they just out-executed the coverage on the catch.
 

glimmerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,956
Reaction score
29,842
You might be right. The fear of backlash from getting a starter hurt in preseason might have played into it as much as the actual fear of losing said starter.

I see that as a negative in Garrett’s coaching, which a lot of people do: Just doing the conservative move. What is expected.

He needs to just do what is needed, consequences be damned. Go for it on fourth more. Play young starters because they need it, even if most rest their guys. Be less predictable, etc.

I know a lot of people say these things, but I’m just saying that even though I don’t hate Garrett like so many do... I still see that he needs to change some things if he wants to take the next step.

IOW, I still hope that he could be the guy we need, but he will have to adapt and change things that have proven to be a negative. Show us that he’s learning and growing as a coach along the way.
Yeah I noticed the going for it on 4th down more changes after JG cost us a game being conservative at the end of one. After that JJ said he would have went for it and suddenly JG goes for it all now. Lol

Also not playing your starters for at least the first half at the end of the year when your in the playoffs and the game isn’t needed. I think a few of our 1 and done years was because of it. Something he never learns about. We get “rested” and come out flat in the playoffs.
 

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
16,412
Reaction score
62,474
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Then explain the three 8-8 seasons. You'll say that was then. But I believe it shows what happens when Garrett has less than quality talent. Like it does with most coaches.

I'll ask you, Bob, the sam thing I have asked this board many times. No one seems to want to ansxwer the question.

Campo went 5-11 three straight times.

He had a beat-up Troy Aikman his first year. A rookie Quincy Carter his second. And a first year Qiincy Carter his third.

Garrett had Romo, who was at the height of his career stats wise. He three for 4100+ in 2011, 4900+ in 2012, and 3900+ in 2013.

Romo's asser ratings were in the high 90's and one year was over 100.

Quincy was in the 70's and Aikman was in the 80's.

My contention and question to you is this.

The only difference between Garrett and Campo was the QB they had.

Can youn deny this?
Yes. I would deny that, although I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. I think there are more differences between Campo and Garrett than who's playing QB. Dave Campo certainly had a deficient roster, but he's never proven to be much beyond a good position coach. Even at the college level.

Again, I'm certainly not a fan of Jason Garrett but in my attempt to be objective, he has won division titles with two different QBs in the last 4 years. Like many on here, I was ready for a change in 2017 at Atlanta. But as a Cowboys fan, if I want to stay a fan I have to accept the cards we've been dealt by the most meddlesome owner in pro sports.

My question in the OP was, "Can Garrett change?" Because if he cannot, I expect a typical Garrett coached team season.
 

Dre11

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,686
Reaction score
11,450
As we near the 2019 season, hope for us Cowboys fans is high. And it is not unfounded. This year’s roster is loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. We may have the most talent we’ve had since the 90s.

We start 2019 with Jason Garrett entering his 9th full season as head coach of the Cowboys. Only 5 other current NFL head coaches have a longer tenure: Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh and Pete Carroll. All 5 of those HCs have won a Super Bowl. Garrett does have a decent record, at 77-59 and has won 3 NFC East divisional titles. But it’s the playoffs where he has struggled.

Jason Garrett has some strengths. There’s no way you can have a winning record as a HC over nearly a decade without having some strengths. IMO, here are Garrett’s strengths as a HC:
  • He motivates his teams to play hard. I’ve never seen a Garrett team just quit.
  • He is a decent judge of talent. Garrett has to be given some credit for increasing the talent level here since he became HC.
  • He has a consistent model of team processes. We laugh at his “process” but he is consistent with how he prepares his team, using most of the stuff used by Nick Saban.
  • He does not make excuses. Unlike his boss, Garrett doesn’t blame injuries or make other excuses like blaming the refs for losses.
  • He somehow manages to get decent results with the most meddlesome owner in sports.
With those strengths also come his weaknesses. In fact, if Garrett cannot improve some of these areas of weakness, I believe we have probably seen all we will ever see from his teams. Here are his weaknesses:
  • A lack of adaptability. Garrett’s greatest weakness is his inability to adjust on the fly, either in game or even in season. This is what has killed us in the playoffs.
  • Stubborn adherence to his schemes and philosophies, even when they don’t work. He will stick to a game plan or player even when it’s getting pummeled. (See Atlanta, 2017, or rams playoff game last year)
  • He is a poor in game manager. We have seen this over and over since 2010. He consistently does not manage the clock, timeouts, or situational decisions well. This is another area that can absolutely kill you in the playoffs. (See GB playoff loss in 2016)
  • He is not creative. Being creative with schemes and use of personnel is critical in today’s game. Because of the salary cap, talent margins among all teams is much thinner than in the 90s. Creativity is a major skill needed in today’s game.
As a whole, Jason Garrett is a better than average NFL HC, as his record indicates. But if we are going to ever see what we all hope as Cowboys fans- that we finally at least have another deep playoff run, then those consistent problems with adaptability, creativity and in-game management must change. Without those changes, we may have gone as far as we can with Garrett.

Can Garrett improve in these areas? Your thoughts?

Is this yet another Garrett thread by bob....lol
 

glimmerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,956
Reaction score
29,842
Some of this lays at the feet of our FO also. JJ gave JG on the job training as HC of The Dallas Cowboys.
 

visionary

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,432
Reaction score
31,767
I believe all good leaders can change. If he can’t change he’s not a good leader. If Garrett cannot change, his teams have reached as high as it can. If he can change, even as you describe by letting other people like Moore or Richard influence him more, maybe he can change. We have to hope so or this will be a fairly predictable season.

There is a reason no HC in the SB era has won a SB with the team if he has not reached at least a Conf CG in first 4 years

It is because by then you have ‘learned’ and adapted as much as you can and you have defined who you are and that is who you will be

We are never wits SB with hard as HC
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,900
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I don’t think the starters will play a lot, no... however I think they’ll play more than last year when they basically didn’t play at all. EzE, Tyron, etc. probably won’t, but I expect Most to do more than last year, yes.
I will be surprised if they play as much. If I am a HC in my contract year, I am not risking a key player and the OC isn't going to game plan at all.
 

glimmerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,956
Reaction score
29,842
I don’t think the starters will play a lot, no... however I think they’ll play more than last year when they basically didn’t play at all. EzE, Tyron, etc. probably won’t, but I expect Most to do more than last year, yes.
Elliot won’t play in preseason. Tyron will be limited. Conners will play we will see a lot of McGovern. I just want to see us have a dress rehearsal in the 3rd game. Last year we never had one.
 

GMO415

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,915
Reaction score
25,605
I have a feeling we are about to see "all cards on the table" JG. Moore will probably implement a KC style offense to enhance Dak's skillset.
 
Top