On June 22, 2017 Derek Carr was signed a 5-year $125m contract extension

[dckid]

.............Derek Carr was signed a five-year, $125 million contract extension with $70 million in total guarantees which made him the highest paid player in the NFL.

Did Derek Carr's agent come to the table and say his client was the best quarterback in the league and deserved to be the highest paid player in the league? Of course not. But they knew the power of inflation. They knew that the higher the salary cap got the higher the salary of quarterbacks would get.

So where do you think that contract ranks just 2 years later?

1. Seahawks QB Russell Wilson: $35 million
2. Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger: $34 million
3. Packers QB Aaron Rodgers: $33.5 million
4. Eagles QB Carson Wentz: $32 million
5. Falcons QB Matt Ryan: $30 million
6. Vikings QB Kirk Cousins: $28 million
7. 49ers QB Jimmy Garoppolo: $27.5 million
8. Lions QB Matthew Stafford: $27 millio
9. Raiders QB Derek Carr: $25 million


So in just TWO YEARS........Derek Carr went from being the highest paid quarterback in the league to #9. And actually with the Tom Brady extension he may actually be #10 if I'm not mistaken.

So what's my point? I'm sure its obvious to many. Dak may sign a contract that makes him top 3 highest paid but with guys like Goff, Mariota, Winston, Mayfield, Allen, Darnold, etc. coming up in the next couple of years? That deal won't even be top 10 especially if you factor in the veterans who will need new deal coming up.

Good point's but how do the Raiders feel about Derek Carr? They have been trying to run him out of town ever since. The only reason he is probably on the team is because his dead cap number was too high to cut. Carr, Stafford, Cousins, Jimmy G are reasons not to sign Dak. Jimmy G's is a unique situation as the Niners had gobs of cap space so they are in a good shape cap wise. I mean signing Jimmy to that deal was stupid, he has to be a pro-bowler this year to justify it.
Dak should have taken the $30 million, and most fans would have accepted it as what you explained regarding the growing cap and cost of doing business with QB's has gone up. Once Dak asked for $40, that just broke the brain of a lot of fans as he has done nothing to show he is the best qb in the league or even top 5.
My thought process during the off season was pay him what Foles got and move on, but that is not realistic as he has started for three years and has won, gone to the playoffs twice. I have always said he is in the top 13-16 range for QB's. Median QB. It's not an insult it's just a fact.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

First and foremost I consider Carr with a bigger upside to franchise road than Dak. Now just because the Raiders overpaid does that translate into us overpaying?
And please don't compare this to Zeke as he is the BEST HB in football and pretty much all of our offense!

Man what in the world does my post have to do about Zeke?

And I don't care what you consider. My point wasn't if Carr is better than Dak or vice versa. My point was what once looked like a "overpay" doesn't look nearly as bad. Free agency and spending moves fast.

And hasn't made the playoffs since.
Good post. Unfortunately, haters don't/ won't understand logic.

Well I would've been wrong on Carr too. By now I thought he would've been far more consistent and I never thought Dak would have more chemistry with Amari Cooper than Carr would. I wouldn't touch him now.

And yes they don't understand logic. They keep using the argument "Well does that mean we should overpay"? Just let my post go completely over their head.

 

[Stash]

.............Derek Carr was signed a five-year, $125 million contract extension with $70 million in total guarantees which made him the highest paid player in the NFL.

Did Derek Carr's agent come to the table and say his client was the best quarterback in the league and deserved to be the highest paid player in the league? Of course not. But they knew the power of inflation. They knew that the higher the salary cap got the higher the salary of quarterbacks would get.

So where do you think that contract ranks just 2 years later?

1. Seahawks QB Russell Wilson: $35 million
2. Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger: $34 million
3. Packers QB Aaron Rodgers: $33.5 million
4. Eagles QB Carson Wentz: $32 million
5. Falcons QB Matt Ryan: $30 million
6. Vikings QB Kirk Cousins: $28 million
7. 49ers QB Jimmy Garoppolo: $27.5 million
8. Lions QB Matthew Stafford: $27 millio
9. Raiders QB Derek Carr: $25 million


So in just TWO YEARS........Derek Carr went from being the highest paid quarterback in the league to #9. And actually with the Tom Brady extension he may actually be #10 if I'm not mistaken.

So what's my point? I'm sure its obvious to many. Dak may sign a contract that makes him top 3 highest paid but with guys like Goff, Mariota, Winston, Mayfield, Allen, Darnold, etc. coming up in the next couple of years? That deal won't even be top 10 especially if you factor in the veterans who will need new deal coming up.

I can see what you're attempting to say, but the true justification isn't there.

The Carr contract was followed by new deals for the established top quarterbacks in the league, and guys who have either played in or won Super Bowls. And those deals are done. The same top quarterbacks are now not up for new deals.

And the deals given to Cousins and Stafford are 'buyer beware' stories, not templates for what teams should be doing.

And there's every bit as much chance right now that the quarterbacks you tried to name - Goff, Mariota, Winston, etc don't even GET new contracts from their current teams, much less break the bank.

Slotting Prescott in the middle of that group seems entirely fair, but inflation isn't justification for paying him more than that.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Good point's but how do the Raiders feel about Derek Carr? They have been trying to run him out of town ever since. The only reason he is probably on the team is because his dead cap number was too high to cut. Carr, Stafford, Cousins, Jimmy G are reasons not to sign Dak. Jimmy G's is a unique situation as the Niners had gobs of cap space so they are in a good shape cap wise. I mean signing Jimmy to that deal was stupid, he has to be a pro-bowler this year to justify it.
Dak should have taken the $30 million, and most fans would have accepted it as what you explained regarding the growing cap and cost of doing business with QB's has gone up. Once Dak asked for $40, that just broke the brain of a lot of fans as he has done nothing to show he is the best qb in the league or even top 5.
My thought process during the off season was pay him what Foles got and move on, but that is not realistic as he has started for three years and has won, gone to the playoffs twice. I have always said he is in the top 13-16 range for QB's. Median QB. It's not an insult it's just a fact.

Well reports are Dak never asked for 40 million. I've seen this story before. I saw it when Dez's turn to get paid and we are seeing it now with Zeke and even with Lawrence. Lawrence apparently wanted Khalil Mack money and wouldn't budge. That was proven to be false just like this Dak rumor is. The plan is to turn public opinion and fans against Dak to try and get him and his camp to take less. Its a pathetic attempt in negotiation to dog a guy out you consider a franchise qb but it is negotiation nonetheless.

For all we know Dak would've taken the 30 million if it had more guarantees in it. We have no idea what that contract looked like. I think all of those guys are stupid who took those team friendly deals like Kapernick did.

Ok, well in 2 or 3 years let's pay a qb 40 million if he's worth it. Simply put, one who is impotent without either an elite RB or a #1 receiver isn't worth 25 much less 32! Dak can't even break 4000 yards passing and 30 TDs but he wants to be paid like Rodgers and Brees!

He wants to be paid his worth. And that's the thing. Teams are smart and don't let their good quarterbacks go. Especially one with Dak's resume. So you are praying to find a guy in 2 or 3 years? That makes no sense lol. IF a guy is available in 2 or 3 years he must suck lol.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I can see what you're attempting to say, but the true justification isn't there.

The Carr contract was followed by new deals for the established top quarterbacks in the league, and guys who have either played in or won Super Bowls. And those deals are done. The same top quarterbacks are now not up for new deals.

And the deals given to Cousins and Stafford are 'buyer beware' stories, not templates for what teams should be doing.

And there's every bit as much chance right now that the quarterbacks you tried to name - Goff, Mariota, Winston, etc don't even GET new contracts from their current teams, much less break the bank.

Slotting Prescott in the middle of that group seems entirely fair, but inflation isn't justification for paying him more than that.

Well its all dependent on what they do this season. I don't see why Goff or Mariotta wouldn't get new deals. Winston is the one that may not get a new deal but if Bruce Arians works his magic I see no reason why they wouldn't sign him to a big deal.

I'm not saying the Cousins and Stafford deals are what teams should be doing. What I'm saying is you guys live in the now. When those deals were handed out everyone was up and arms and just 2 years later those deals aren't the best deals in the league like you guys stated when they happened.

My post wasn't whether or not the Cowboys should Dak to 40 million. It was to erase that argument of "He's not the best in the league and doesn't deserve to be the highest paid" that guys keep throwing around. In 2 or 3 years guys will be getting 40+ million.

 

[Swanny]

Perfect example of not getting it. Its not about worth. Thats just what QB's get paid. None are worth it.

They are absolutely worth it if they are good. A guy like Dak (unless proven wrong) I'd rather let walk and start over again. A guy like Tom Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Stafford, Rivers, Luck, Big Ben, Brees and Ryan all deserve any amount of money they can get. A guy like Dak I would never give a large chunk of salary cap space to. I would rather roll with a cheap rookie than Dak at a large long term contract. Dak is not going to win a super bowl. If he ever wins a super bowl it's going to be a Trent Dilfer type of win. Never in a million years did Trent Dilfer ever deserve to be paid a huge chunk of Salary Cap space.

I fully understand what you're saying. QBs get paid whatever chunk of salary cap space. Salary Cap goes up every year so that means QBs contracts will also go up. It's simple. It's not hard to understand.
At this point Dak has not proven to be worth taking up such a large chunk of salary cap space. I hope he goes out this year and proves he is worth a huge chunk of salary cap space.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

What I’m saying is the perception of Carr was higher than the perception of Dak is now. Whether that is colorectal is the subject of legitimate debate.

Yeah I'm sure it was. Carr was suppose to be the savior. I'm not arguing who was better. I'm simply bringing up their contracts. No matter what perception he had it was never the best in the league and in 2017 he was paid like the best in the league and 2 years later that same deal has dropped to 10th in the league.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

They are absolutely worth it if they are good. A guy like Dak (unless proven wrong) I'd rather let walk and start over again. A guy like Tom Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Stafford, Rivers, Luck, Big Ben, Brees and Ryan all deserve any amount of money they can get. A guy like Dak I would never give a large chunk of salary cap space to. I would rather roll with a cheap rookie than Dak at a large long term contract. Dak is not going to win a super bowl. If he ever wins a super bowl it's going to be a Trent Dilfer type of win. Never in a million years did Trent Dilfer ever deserve to be paid a huge chunk of Salary Cap space.

I fully understand what you're saying. QBs get paid whatever chunk of salary cap space. Salary Cap goes up every year so that means QBs contracts will also go up. It's simple. It's not hard to understand.
At this point Dak has not proven to be worth taking up such a large chunk of salary cap space. I hope he goes out this year and proves he is worth a huge chunk of salary cap space.

Funny you bring up Ben Rothlisberger, Russel Wilson and Tom Brady as guys you wouldn't let walk but when they were 26 like Dak is now they were either as good as Dak or slightly worse. You'r paying for potential with Dak as well. I'm sorry but if you think Dak and Trent Differ or anything alike you have no idea what you're talking about. I know that's a easy comparison to make because Trent wasn't slinging the football all over the field but that's just very lazy and misinformed.

 

[Sydla]

OK.

Make Dak play 2019, or part of 2019, before handing him a Top 3 contract.

Why do people have a problem with that?

 

[Stash]

Well its all dependent on what they do this season. I don't see why Goff or Mariotta wouldn't get new deals. Winston is the one that may not get a new deal but if Bruce Arians works his magic I see no reason why they wouldn't sign him to a big deal.

All three can just as easily be looking for work. Out of a job. Mariota's backup is already outplaying him. There's certainly no guarantee that any of them will be setting new market prices for pay or making Dak's contract look like any bargain. The established guys already got theirs, and established the market.

I'm not saying the Cousins and Stafford deals are what teams should be doing. What I'm saying is you guys live in the now. When those deals were handed out everyone was up and arms and just 2 years later those deals aren't the best deals in the league like you guys stated when they happened.

"You guys"? What kind of sweeping generalities bull**** is this?

My post wasn't whether or not the Cowboys should Dak to 40 million. It was to erase that argument of "He's not the best in the league and doesn't deserve to be the highest paid" that guys keep throwing around. In 2 or 3 years guys will be getting 40+ million.

Based on the reasoning and examples behind it, it failed.

 

[Sydla]

Funny you bring up Ben Rothlisberger, Russel Wilson and Tom Brady as guys you wouldn't let walk but when they were 26 like Dak is now they were either as good as Dak or slightly worse. You'r paying for potential with Dak as well. I'm sorry but if you think Dak and Trent Differ or anything alike you have no idea what you're talking about. I know that's a easy comparison to make because Trent wasn't slinging the football all over the field but that's just very lazy and misinformed.

By the time Brady was 26, he had a SB win under his belt and was about to win his second one. Big Ben also won a SB. So did Wilson.

So while I would agree that comparing Dak to Dilfer is a real stretch, you trying to compare Dak to those other three isn't exactly on point either.

 

[OmerV]

.............Derek Carr was signed a five-year, $125 million contract extension with $70 million in total guarantees which made him the highest paid player in the NFL.

Did Derek Carr's agent come to the table and say his client was the best quarterback in the league and deserved to be the highest paid player in the league? Of course not. But they knew the power of inflation. They knew that the higher the salary cap got the higher the salary of quarterbacks would get.

So where do you think that contract ranks just 2 years later?

1. Seahawks QB Russell Wilson: $35 million
2. Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger: $34 million
3. Packers QB Aaron Rodgers: $33.5 million
4. Eagles QB Carson Wentz: $32 million
5. Falcons QB Matt Ryan: $30 million
6. Vikings QB Kirk Cousins: $28 million
7. 49ers QB Jimmy Garoppolo: $27.5 million
8. Lions QB Matthew Stafford: $27 millio
9. Raiders QB Derek Carr: $25 million


So in just TWO YEARS........Derek Carr went from being the highest paid quarterback in the league to #9. And actually with the Tom Brady extension he may actually be #10 if I'm not mistaken.

So what's my point? I'm sure its obvious to many. Dak may sign a contract that makes him top 3 highest paid but with guys like Goff, Mariota, Winston, Mayfield, Allen, Darnold, etc. coming up in the next couple of years? That deal won't even be top 10 especially if you factor in the veterans who will need new deal coming up.

I doubt some of those you named will pass Dak up, but your point is well taken, and a fair one. And as you mentioned, there are others that will also pass him up you didn't name. You didn't mention Mahomes, who may blow everyone away.

I've encouraged people all along to recognize that pay scale is not a position ranking. That could only hope to be the case if every player at every position were negotiating a new contract in the same year under the same market conditions, which isn't possible. And even then it wouldn't work because every team would negotiate differently and place different values on players.

I will say, if it is true Dak is asking $40MM/year, that is out of line (subject to other contract details), but I seriously doubt Dak is asking that, much less expecting it.

 

[CATCH17]

Good point's but how do the Raiders feel about Derek Carr? They have been trying to run him out of town ever since. The only reason he is probably on the team is because his dead cap number was too high to cut. Carr, Stafford, Cousins, Jimmy G are reasons not to sign Dak. Jimmy G's is a unique situation as the Niners had gobs of cap space so they are in a good shape cap wise. I mean signing Jimmy to that deal was stupid, he has to be a pro-bowler this year to justify it.
Dak should have taken the $30 million, and most fans would have accepted it as what you explained regarding the growing cap and cost of doing business with QB's has gone up. Once Dak asked for $40, that just broke the brain of a lot of fans as he has done nothing to show he is the best qb in the league or even top 5.
My thought process during the off season was pay him what Foles got and move on, but that is not realistic as he has started for three years and has won, gone to the playoffs twice. I have always said he is in the top 13-16 range for QB's. Median QB. It's not an insult it's just a fact.

I would love to have Derek Carr. That guy can play.

He is a vertical QB. Exactly what we need. Gruden's schemes does not fit him.

 

[Stash]

OK.

Make Dak play 2019, or part of 2019, before handing him a Top 3 contract.

Why do people have a problem with that?

That's what I'd be doing.

If the $30 million a year range is too low? No problem.

Play out this year at $2 million and we'll tag you, as is our right, for the 2020 and 2021 seasons. And end up having him for three years and less than $70 million. Oh and we can then spend the next three drafts and free agency periods finding his replacement.

Cowboys win.

 

[baltcowboy]

No way. Matt Ryan played like an MVP last season. He is and always has been better than Dak.

I watched them play head to head last year. Dak was the better quarterback.

 

[Stash]

I would love to have Derek Carr. That guy can play.

He is a vertical QB. Exactly what we need. Gruden's schemes does not fit him.

You may be in luck, Gruden hates every quarterback he's ever had not named Rich Gannon. Derek Carr will probably be available in a year.

 

[Sydla]

I watched them play head to head last year. Dak was the better quarterback.

He was?

Dak threw for 200 yards and no TDs that day. Ryan threw for close to 300 and one TD (and one interception).

Ryan is a better QB than Dak.

 

[CATCH17]

You may be in luck, Gruden hates every quarterback he's ever had not named Rich Gannon. Derek Carr will probably be available in a year.

He would be really good here.

 

[Sydla]

That's what I'd be doing.

If the $30 million a year range is too low? No problem.

Play out this year at $2 million and we'll tag you, as is our right, for the 2020 and 2021 seasons. And end up having him for three years and less than $70 million. Oh and we can then spend the next three drafts and free agency periods finding his replacement.

Cowboys win.

I just don't get why people are freaking out about having to sign him now.

I mean they are perfectly content, apparently handing him $33MM, so why would they care if you have to pay him $38MM next year if he has a great 2019 season?

 

[dckid]

Well reports are Dak never asked for 40 million. I've seen this story before. I saw it when Dez's turn to get paid and we are seeing it now with Zeke and even with Lawrence. Lawrence apparently wanted Khalil Mack money and wouldn't budge. That was proven to be false just like this Dak rumor is. The plan is to turn public opinion and fans against Dak to try and get him and his camp to take less. Its a pathetic attempt in negotiation to dog a guy out you consider a franchise qb but it is negotiation nonetheless.

For all we know Dak would've taken the 30 million if it had more guarantees in it. We have no idea what that contract looked like. I think all of those guys are stupid who took those team friendly deals like Kapernick did.



He wants to be paid his worth. And that's the thing. Teams are smart and don't let their good quarterbacks go. Especially one with Dak's resume. So you are praying to find a guy in 2 or 3 years? That makes no sense lol. IF a guy is available in 2 or 3 years he must suck lol.

It's interesting, do you think the Cowboys should pay Dak $40 per year?

Funny you bring up Ben Rothlisberger, Russel Wilson and Tom Brady as guys you wouldn't let walk but when they were 26 like Dak is now they were either as good as Dak or slightly worse. You'r paying for potential with Dak as well. I'm sorry but if you think Dak and Trent Differ or anything alike you have no idea what you're talking about. I know that's a easy comparison to make because Trent wasn't slinging the football all over the field but that's just very lazy and misinformed.

All three guys you mention Wilson, Big Ben & Brady had SB wins at 26 and you could see that they were upper echelon QB's. Dak just isnt and I'm not suggesting we start over. This is not a binary discussion, where if fans don't think he is worth $40 million we should move on.
I also would not be surprise if Dak's camp leaked out that he is looking for $40 million a year. I mean its good negotiation on their part as the $30 million barrier has been crossed and now when he settles for $32 fans will think he took one for the team. It's gamesmanship on both sides. If I was the Cowboys I would put a timeline on the $30 offer and then just let him play it out. Dak is not a top 5 QB and he shouldn't be paid as such.. ( my opinion). Just because other teams have decided to pay outrageous salaries to the likes of Carr, Stafford, Jimmy G, doesn't mean the Cowboys should follow suit.