Trysten Hill is not a bust

[kskboys]

I don't rate college players. I'm not one of these guys that pretends like I know every player in the draft. I know a select few. I leave that to you experts. I evaluate them once they get to the pros.

Then I'm not understanding this convo.

 

[Pharoah]

Neither one of those guys came and starting day 1.

No but should have. Nod going go to veteran if not #1 pick. But camp reviews etc all pointed toward starters. Definitely no bust reviews. Or needing years to develop

 

[tyke1doe]

As I've said before, if Jerry Jones listened to many Cowboys fans around here, we'd have no team because almost every play on our roster from Jaylon Smith to Dak Prescott to Sean Lee to Zeke Elliott to Lael Collins to Jeff Heath to Byron Jones would have been traded or cut by now.
Patience, young grasshoppers, patience.

 

[Sydla]

What 2nd round DT comes in and starts day 1? That's incredibly rare. Some 1st rounders don't even start day 1 at the 1t or the 3t.

I'm sure they expected for him to be apart of the rotation but I doubt they expected him to start day 1. They didn't even expect LVE to start day 1.

I never said "start" in my post. But it's some revisionist history if we are going to try to sell Hill as being a long term project that the Cowboys weren't expecting much from this year.

And as for your question............ last year, BJ Hill was taken in the 3rd round and played the 2nd most snaps at DT for the Giants and was actually pretty good. PJ Hall was taken in the 2nd round by the Raiders and he played the 2nd most snaps at DT for the Raiders.

In 2017, Malik McDowell was a 2nd rounder but he was a wack job. The other 2nd round DT was Tomlinson, who played the 2nd most snaps at DT his rookie year.

In 2016, Chris Jones was the first DT off the board in the 2nd round and he made an immediate impact in KC (granted, KC plays a 3-4 and Jones was playing a DE spot there, so not a total apples to apples comparison). The other DTs taken in the 2nd round that year were Austin Johnson (who didn't do much as a rookie), A'Shawn Robinson (was pretty effective his rookie year), Jarran Reed (pretty effective as a rookie) and Adam Gostis (didn't do much for the Broncos his rookie year).

So no, it's not rare to find a DT in the 2nd round that can make an impact. Note, I am not saying Hill is a bust by any stretch. I am not ready to say he won't even have an impact for us this year. But let's not re-write history here and act like the Cowboys took Hill knowing he would be a wash this year and need a year of training to become an effective player for us. Let's also not try to sell this idea that 2nd round DTs can't have impacts right from the start of their careers.

 

[CyberB0b]

You have to be a idiot to call someone a bust after the first preseason game.

Yeah, no kidding. What the hell.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

No but should have. Nod going go to veteran if not #1 pick. But camp reviews etc all pointed toward starters. Definitely no bust reviews. Or needing years to develop

That's not my point. I'm saying you don't come straight in and start. Its very rare. Now you may eventually start later on as the season progresses but you don't go into a draft and in the 2nd round and say I have to draft my starter here. They should've traded up if they expected that.

 

[kskboys]

As I've said before, if Jerry Jones listened to many Cowboys fans around here, we'd have no team because almost every play on our roster from Jaylon Smith to Dak Prescott to Sean Lee to Zeke Elliott to Lael Collins to Jeff Heath to Byron Jones would have been traded or cut by now.
Patience, young grasshoppers, patience.

And if he'd listened to the right fans, it wouldn't have taken us 23 years.

 

[AbeBeta]

You have to be a idiot to call someone a bust after the first preseason game.

So you are saying that there are a lot of idiotic posts on this board?

 

[kskboys]

That's not my point. I'm saying you don't come straight in and start. Its very rare. Now you may eventually start later on as the season progresses but you don't go into a draft and in the 2nd round and say I have to draft my starter here. They should've traded up if they expected that.

You're lucky if you get an immediate starter from the mid first round on.

I'm not sure people even realize how many 1st rounders don't start right away.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I never said "start" in my post. But it's some revisionist history if we are going to try to sell Hill as being a long term project that the Cowboys weren't expecting much from this year.

And as for your question............ last year, BJ Hill was taken in the 3rd round and played the 2nd most snaps at DT for the Giants and was actually pretty good. PJ Hall was taken in the 2nd round by the Raiders and he played the 2nd most snaps at DT for the Raiders.

In 2017, Malik McDowell was a 2nd rounder but he was a wack job. The other 2nd round DT was Tomlinson, who played the 2nd most snaps at DT his rookie year.

In 2016, Chris Jones was the first DT off the board in the 2nd round and he made an immediate impact in KC (granted, KC plays a 3-4 and Jones was playing a DE spot there, so not a total apples to apples comparison). The other DTs taken in the 2nd round that year were Austin Johnson (who didn't do much as a rookie), A'Shawn Robinson (was pretty effective his rookie year), Jarran Reed (pretty effective as a rookie) and Adam Gostis (didn't do much for the Broncos his rookie year).

So no, it's not rare to find a DT in the 2nd round that can make an impact. Note, I am not saying Hill is a bust by any stretch. I am not ready to say he won't even have an impact for us this year. But let's not re-write history here and act like the Cowboys took Hill knowing he would be a wash this year and need a year of training to become an effective player for us. Let's also not try to sell this idea that 2nd round DTs can't have impacts right from the start of their careers.

Alright that's fair. A nice list of guys. I guess the Cowboys screwed the pooch then because I don't see Hill being ready this year to make a impact or eventually start. Too raw IMO.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You're lucky if you get an immediate starter from the mid first round on.

I'm not sure people even realize how many 1st rounders don't start right away.

That's what I'm trying to get them to understand. Sure there are exceptions but there are top 5 picks in the draft that don't make immediate impact. This draft thing is just a crap shoot.

 

[Sydla]

Alright that's fair. A nice list of guys. I guess the Cowboys screwed the pooch then because I don't see Hill being ready this year to make a impact or eventually start. Too raw IMO.

I think the Cowboys wanted to get a DT high in this draft and I think they deferred to Marinelli for his guy and they typically do what Marinelli wants. It's how we ended up with Taco. It's almost the same situation as they wanted to come out of that draft with a DE early.

Marinelli likes these toolsy guys that he thinks he can mold. Let's hope Hill progresses at a different rate than Taco. I am not ready to say Hill can't provide some quality play for us this season either.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think the Cowboys wanted to get a DT high in this draft and I think they deferred to Marinelli for his guy and they typically do what Marinelli wants. It's how we ended up with Taco. It's almost the same situation as they wanted to come out of that draft with a DE early.

Marinelli likes these toolsy guys that he thinks he can mold. Let's hope Hill progresses at a different rate than Taco. I am not ready to say Hill can't provide some quality play for us this season either.

I just don't see him getting the opportunity unless a injury happens.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Yet, you consider Dak a bust after only three years! Lol

Hey Coach seen enough of inaccurate Panic Sally Dak Prescott.
Amazing as if you are in fact a coach and believe you can make Dak into a Franchise QB then the entire NFL should be full of Tom Brady's.
Last time I checked its not as QB are born and then fine tuned to greatness.
Dak never had it and never will.......

P.S. He's a sturdy good runner though that I'll give you!

 

[Pharoah]

That's what I'm trying to get them to understand. Sure there are exceptions but there are top 5 picks in the draft that don't make immediate impact. This draft thing is just a crap shoot.

In no way do I expect 2nd round non skill players to start immediately. Problem is I just think expectations were to high from fans. Anyone who followed the dt position from last year draft are surprised he went that high. Clearly a pick based on measurables also known as potential

 

[quickccc]

We overdrafted Hill based on hoopla. He should've been a mid round pick. Not his fault.

One of the worst things that ever happened was Byron turning out to be a good player. Gave us the confidence to take similar players early.

Overdrafted ?
Several thought the very same thing about LVE at draft time,when we selected him in the first round and add that he was limited and had to push thru a camp injury, and was limited in snaps until Lee injury occurred.

Byron Jones, to this very day, still would have never had the chance to be prove he
could a good player if we had kept the previous secondary coach who insisted that
Byron was more of a FS than he was a CB.

Some players just won't happen overnight- but its very important that Hill at least gets the key significant amount of snaps on the field to even have a chance of learning and improving..

 

[Ranching]

Hey Coach seen enough of inaccurate Panic Sally Dak Prescott.
Amazing as if you are in fact a coach and believe you can make Dak into a Franchise QB then the entire NFL should be full of Tom Brady's.
Last time I checked its not as QB are born and then fine tuned to greatness.
Dak never had it and never will.......

P.S. He's a sturdy good runner though that I'll give you!

As a fan I like Dak, as a former coach I seen a lot of good qualities. He can be a great QB with a supporting cast. He's much better than anything we could go out and get. I don't think he deserves top 5 money, but he will get it because of the market.
Leadership and toughness earns your players respect, he has that. Players play hard for him, if his demands get outta whack, that could change.
He doesn't make his teammates better with his arm, but he brings out the best in them with his leadership and grit.

 

[jazzcat22]

Too early to call him a bust but disappointed that we didn't see those flashes of brilliance that you'd expect from a 1st or 2nd rd pick.

Not going to happen all the time in a players 1st NFL vanilla PS game. And not without surrounding starters either.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it will take a few sacks to get some to say differently. Then they will say...yeah but it was against backup players, let's see it in real games...
He can' win with the hecklers on here.

 

[Fredbeard]

Khalen Saunders was the guy I wanted over Hill. I betcha he becomes a better player.

I think part of the logic behind the hill pick was his combine performance and sparq score. I believe Saunders had a almost identical performance at the combine and had a far more productive college career than hill ,which is why the hill pick didn’t really make sense that me.
I wish the cowboys would have drafted Daylon Mack and had he and woods play the one tech
With Collins and Covington rotating at the three tech.

 

[Bigdog]

It's a process