X&O Analysis: Run Defense

buybuydandavis

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The image below is from the Super Bowl.
  • Notice the difference in where the LBs are aligned as compared to the Cowboys?
  • The Pats moved the OLBs outside the DEs and up on the line.
  • On outside zone runs the DL didn't need to immediately flow to the play-side because there was a LB out there already.
  • The Pats had their DEs squeeze the inside to offset having the LBs outside.
  • This is possible because the LBs now have outside contain instead of the DEs.
  • The result is that the DL has not significantly moved to the play-side and remain in the middle area when the RB cuts back inside.


Notice how this exposes the 1T of their dline. There's no LB behind him and the dline to his left and right are playing on the outside shoulders of the oline across from them. Beat him and you're off to the races.

Particularly with Woods out, this alignment would be a disaster for us.
 

Parcells4Life

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This is also why I want Ron Rivera as DC here. The 4-6 sub packages that the Ravens/Bears occasionally use would be awesome. He has experience from his playing days with the Bears
 

CB61

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It would be nice if we could discuss X & O issues in this thread.

There are already dozens of threads about how much so & so on the Cowboys sucks.

The solution to run defense on inside runs is to remove a defender from the inside...

It is obviously counter-intuitive to have 1 less defender in the middle to improve inside run defense but that is how the Patriots stopped the Rams run game in the Super Bowl.

The image below is from a play in the 4th quarter of the Cowboys-Packers game that has been mentioned several times because the 3-tech DT takes himself out of the middle area and the Packers RB cuts back inside for an 11 yard gain.

The issue is that the Cowboys all flow play-side when they see an outside zone run and then are out of position when the RB cuts back inside. This was by far the #1 issue in the playoff game against the Rams and it was an issue in the Packers game.

Note: The Packers only had 3 inside runs that gain more than 5 yards.

I'll show the solution in the 2nd post of this thread.

The announcers always say the Cowboys play a defense score each man is responsible for a gap but I 100% agree with you if they all slide to the play side or the fake for that matter they are always out of place so maybe there needs to be a fundamental change perhaps to what you pointed out in your second post that may not be a bad idea we need to change something that's for sure! It's almost as stupid as playing 15 yards off the receivers been that way for years makes no sense to me when you have a 3rd 5 and for the most part the DBs are playing 10 yards off the ball? I say get aggressive go up and challenge them and then if you get beat so be it but you're guaranteed to get plan that far off the ball or they're going to get the first down and then they keep marching on down the field until the defense is wore out and they've scored
 

buybuydandavis

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I hate having Jaylon at MLB. He's much better on an edge where he can fly to the ball and blitz. Meanwhile, LVE is gigantic, and is better at picking lanes. Should be at MLB.

Heath playing in the box at SS where his lack of lateral agility and tight hips are most exposed.

Plodding Crawford at 290 at RDE.

Marinelli has always been playing our guys out of position. Clown Team.
 

Bluestang

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It’s real simple. DL need to play with better gap discipline. Backside defender on outside zone needs to have contain. Tackling as a whole was atrocious.

Collins may be a good rusher but he sucks at anchoring in the run game. We need to find better DTs.

LVE had the worst game of his career. Jaylon and LVE are getting caught up with too much eye candy and taking initial false steps.
 

EJK24

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The image below is from the Super Bowl.
  • Notice the difference in where the LBs are aligned as compared to the Cowboys?
  • The Pats moved the OLBs outside the DEs and up on the line.
  • On outside zone runs the DL didn't need to immediately flow to the play-side because there was a LB out there already.
  • The Pats had their DEs squeeze the inside to offset having the LBs outside.
  • This is possible because the LBs now have outside contain instead of the DEs.
  • The result is that the DL has not significantly moved to the play-side and remain in the middle area when the RB cuts back inside.


Great post. Thanks for the info.
 

CowboyRoy

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It would be nice if we could discuss X & O issues in this thread.

There are already dozens of threads about how much so & so on the Cowboys sucks.

The solution to run defense on inside runs is to remove a defender from the inside...

It is obviously counter-intuitive to have 1 less defender in the middle to improve inside run defense but that is how the Patriots stopped the Rams run game in the Super Bowl.

The image below is from a play in the 4th quarter of the Cowboys-Packers game that has been mentioned several times because the 3-tech DT takes himself out of the middle area and the Packers RB cuts back inside for an 11 yard gain.

The issue is that the Cowboys all flow play-side when they see an outside zone run and then are out of position when the RB cuts back inside. This was by far the #1 issue in the playoff game against the Rams and it was an issue in the Packers game.

We have major holes in our D specifically DT and safety. Your preseason claim that "they will be fine" has ONCE AGAIN proven to be wrong.

Tried hard to warn you that reality might prove different. Here were are in week 6 and STILL Lawrence isn't right from his surgery and missing TC. Covington and whatever other journeyman DT don't cut it like they always don't. Crawford is nowhere to be found. Safeties are still trash. Corners are solid, but neither of them make plays on the ball.

There is not "simple solution". WE need players at the position where they suck.

Your continual MO to prove the players unaccountable continues to be laughable.
 
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xwalker

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I hate having Jaylon at MLB. He's much better on an edge where he can fly to the ball and blitz. Meanwhile, LVE is gigantic, and is better at picking lanes. Should be at MLB.

Heath playing in the box at SS where his lack of lateral agility and tight hips are most exposed.

Plodding Crawford at 290 at RDE.

Marinelli has always been playing our guys out of position. Clown Team.

I'm much more concerned about the scheme than those players.
  • Crawford played at DT in the Packers game.
  • It appeared to be Quinn as the starting RDE and Armstrong as the backup.
  • Hyder was the backup LDE.

They have been using a 3-man DL on obvious passing downs with Jaylon replacing a DT.
  • They actually replace Jaylon's normal position with Lee or Thomas.
  • You'll see 3 LBs but it's still Nickel because Jaylon is replacing a DT.
  • This allows Jaylon to rush the passer from anywhere.
  • They normally have Collins lined up over the Center but they sometimes move him over to one side in a 3-tech or 2-tech alignment.
  • They can also have Jaylon and LVE flip responsibilities with LVE rushing and Jaylon in coverage.
  • Sometimes they rush both Jaylon and LVE.
Strong Safety
  • I review a lot of game footage.
    • Strong Safety has not been my focus this season; however...
    • Heath rarely seems to be the problem on plays I review.
  • Woods is not a good option at SS either. He is not that good at getting off blocks and his tackling is just OK.
  • Thompson was good when he started at FS but he also does not appear to be a good option at SS.
  • Hopefully rookie Donovan Wilson will get some snaps soon. His injury set him back. He is getting snaps on Special Teams.
 

xwalker

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Notice how this exposes the 1T of their dline. There's no LB behind him and the dline to his left and right are playing on the outside shoulders of the oline across from them. Beat him and you're off to the races.

Particularly with Woods out, this alignment would be a disaster for us.
Notice how this exposes the 1T of their dline. There's no LB behind him and the dline to his left and right are playing on the outside shoulders of the oline across from them. Beat him and you're off to the races.

Particularly with Woods out, this alignment would be a disaster for us.

No, because you have to consider how the 1-tech plays on zone runs.

Cowboys method
  • In that Pats image, the 1-tech is on the right.
  • If the Offense shows zone outside the RDE, the Cowboys 1-tech would basically sprint towards the outside.
  • That takes the 1-tech out of the middle area and puts him in a bad leverage position when the RB cuts back to the inside.

Pats method
  • The Pats change the 1-tech's assignments because of the LB(s) on the outside.
  • The DE(s) can play the inside gap (B gap) instead of the outside gap (C gap).
  • The DE shifting assignments by 1 gap to the inside keeps the 1-tech from needing to get over to squeeze the B gap.

Example
  • Without considering TEs and in the Nickel defense, there are 6 gaps with 4 DL and 2 LBs.
  • The B gap between the 1-tech and DE is an open or LB gap.
  • The 1-tech is in the A gap and the DE outside in the C gap.
  • The Pats move that LB normally responsible for that B gap outside to the C gap.
  • That allows the DE to cover the B gap instead of the C gap.
 

xwalker

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The announcers always say the Cowboys play a defense score each man is responsible for a gap but I 100% agree with you if they all slide to the play side or the fake for that matter they are always out of place so maybe there needs to be a fundamental change perhaps to what you pointed out in your second post that may not be a bad idea we need to change something that's for sure! It's almost as stupid as playing 15 yards off the receivers been that way for years makes no sense to me when you have a 3rd 5 and for the most part the DBs are playing 10 yards off the ball? I say get aggressive go up and challenge them and then if you get beat so be it but you're guaranteed to get plan that far off the ball or they're going to get the first down and then they keep marching on down the field until the defense is wore out and they've scored

Blocking for the outside zone run always looks like an outside run but the cut back to the inside is part of the design.

Defenses have to respect the outside and flow that direction, but RB can cut back inside at anytime.

Many (maybe most) outside zone runs are actually intended to be cut backs to the inside on that specific play but offenses need to get defenses to respect the outside.

The Cowboys offense struggled to execute zone runs with cut backs to the inside because the Saints didn't respect the outside run and the Cowboys didn't do much to force them to respect it.
 

visionary

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The image below is from the Super Bowl.
  • Notice the difference in where the LBs are aligned as compared to the Cowboys?
  • The Pats moved the OLBs outside the DEs and up on the line.
  • On outside zone runs the DL didn't need to immediately flow to the play-side because there was a LB out there already.
  • The Pats had their DEs squeeze the inside to offset having the LBs outside.
  • This is possible because the LBs now have outside contain instead of the DEs.
  • The result is that the DL has not significantly moved to the play-side and remain in the middle area when the RB cuts back inside.


these are good points
My question is, why did our coaches nit do this when the Pats had already shown them what to do?
 

sbark

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Great work x, appreciate time spent

It's really what make belchek so great....he has no problem or ego adapting
The nfl is a copycat league and yet after watching the pats stymie Rams run game in the s.bowl,
Our defense remains scheme bound, un adaptable 5 games and 8 months later,
 

CWR

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Yada yada yada yada can you tell us what our offense was doing while the Packers took us to the house 31-3?

Turning the ball over. That doesn't account for the defense getting gashed though does it??
 

CWR

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I could, but you would not understand the analysis if I posted it.

Thanks for putting in the time. It sucks that this site has people who are bound and determined to be rude and argumentative.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Well it also helped that Belichick tricked the Rams into basically running what he wanted them to by changing alignments after the helmet mic went off.
 

superonyx

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We have major holes in our D specifically DT and safety. Your preseason claim that "they will be fine" has ONCE AGAIN proven to be wrong.

Tried hard to warn you that reality might prove different. Here were are in week 6 and STILL Lawrence isn't right from his surgery and missing TC. Covington and whatever other journeyman DT don't cut it like they always don't. Crawford is nowhere to be found. Safeties are still trash. Corners are solid, but neither of them make plays on the ball.

There is not "simple solution". WE need players at the position where they suck.

Your continual MO to prove the players unaccountable continues to be laughable.
Every team has holes in talent. Why does it always seem like we are top 3 in talent and can barely get to top 15 in production.

Other teams can cover for their weaknesses. We seem like we need pro bowl players across the board to compete.
 

buybuydandavis

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I'm much more concerned about the scheme than those players.
  • Crawford played at DT in the Packers game.
  • It appeared to be Quinn as the starting RDE and Armstrong as the backup.
  • Hyder was the backup LDE.
They have been using a 3-man DL on obvious passing downs with Jaylon replacing a DT.
  • They actually replace Jaylon's normal position with Lee or Thomas.
  • You'll see 3 LBs but it's still Nickel because Jaylon is replacing a DT.
  • This allows Jaylon to rush the passer from anywhere.
  • They normally have Collins lined up over the Center but they sometimes move him over to one side in a 3-tech or 2-tech alignment.
  • They can also have Jaylon and LVE flip responsibilities with LVE rushing and Jaylon in coverage.
  • Sometimes they rush both Jaylon and LVE.
Strong Safety
  • I review a lot of game footage.
    • Strong Safety has not been my focus this season; however...
    • Heath rarely seems to be the problem on plays I review.
  • Woods is not a good option at SS either. He is not that good at getting off blocks and his tackling is just OK.
  • Thompson was good when he started at FS but he also does not appear to be a good option at SS.
  • Hopefully rookie Donovan Wilson will get some snaps soon. His injury set him back. He is getting snaps on Special Teams.

On Heath, when he does break down in coverage near the LOS, it leads to big plays. He falls or doesn't flip his hips and leaves a free runner short heading up the field.
Thompson has good size, and seems like he can tackle. I'd trust him to not get beat quickly over Heath. He doesn't have the speed to take guys too far upfield, though.
Wilson might be the best option to cover Heath's weakness near the lOS. He's listed as playing "nickel", presumably slot, in college, so his near LOS man coverage skills are probably a strength for a S.
I like Heath a lot as an over the top zone safety. I like him blitzing. Don't like him in coverage bear the LOS where he has to flip his hips to go upfield.

I don't like Jaylon playing as a DT, even a roaming DT. I like him swapping off with LVE for coverage/blitz a little better, though rarely. I'd rather have a 4 man line and leave it to Jaylon to option blitz or drop in coverage.

Or if we got another stand up rush LB not name LVE, let's play 3-4 on passing downs, always blitzing one or both of that guy with Jaylon. Lee isn't that guy. I wonder if Thomas can do it. Maybe that rookie? Seems like a stretch.

Going into the season, I wanted Jaylon to play like an in the box SS sometimes, where in Big Nickel, we take out our SS, bring in a CB, but put Jaylon in the box to blitz or man cover a TE. His agility doesn't look as good as I expected, though, so now I'm not sure about him being able to take a TE in man. Before his injury in college, that would have been a lock.
 

Aven8

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Looks like they have Woods coming in to rush while Lee covering the TE? Wouldn't it be better to have Smith rush, Lee back at MLB and woods on the TE? I thought smith's been doing ok rushing as of late.

Rushing is Jaylons best asset IMO.
 
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