Moore, learning on the job

[quickccc]

yeh, it does feel like Kellen Moore is still going through his learning curves and growing pains, and games like Minny are going to be the result of it.

Can Garrett an supposedly great offensive mind himself according to Jerry, help with this inexperience as the game(s) go on, .or is it completely in Kellen's hand to burn and learn ?

 

[quickccc]

...and one part of Kellen still not there in terms of development and experience, Moore hasn't come even close to learning how to use specialty pet RB tony pollard as he seems to see the field with the ball in his hands more and more.
We haven't' come even close to utilizing and developing him as a productive pass receiver out of the backfield who was to impose his dangerous speed in matchups and open field.

Remember all the comparisons to Alvin Kamara and Christian McCaffrey and how Kellen was gonna use to be used in space, be gimmick go to, impact kick return game, ..?

Where's that dangerous quick screen passes that we used to use zeke on and he took it home for a long distance TD, ?... I mean can we not do so the same with Pollard ?

 

[CouchCoach]

No one here knows the relationship between Garret and Moore. We don't know the extent of Garrett's involvement in the planning or calling but he was once where Moore is so to think he's not tapping into that experience doesn't make any sense. Who else on the team could counsel Moore?

There's also an assumption that Garrett wanted to keep Linehan but he could have been just assuming that he would come back because he was still under contract and didn't think Booger would take a chance on a coach with one year of experience.

Some are also looking at Moore to replace Garrett if he's not extended but what if the plan is to have him replace Garrett when he is upped to the FO?

It's fun speculating about what we think we know but don't take any of that seriously. Like Garrett took over the play calling after 3 games because he felt threatened. That's akin to if it's good, must be McClay, if it's bad, gotta be Booger.

What we are witnessing is the education of Kellen Moore and it's hard knocks from here on out. He's up against DC's with a lot more experience and some very good players. The biggest mistake we can make is to not expect mistakes. The end of that MIN game was a learning experience for Young Kellen and it will not be the last one we will see.

On the flip side of that is Moore sent the message that his QB and receiving corps can handle it if the DC commits to shutting the run down. I think the DC's got a little more to worry about than Elliott from that Vikings game. Prescott and his triplets stepped up, got open and made several jaw dropping catches.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

To me there's a dilemma here.

Moore has been surprisingly good, at least to me, this year. I expected a lot more growing pains than this but in his first year as a OC, he has an offense that can normally churn up yards, score some points and Dak clearly has trended upwards compared to 2017 and 2018.

Moore may have real potential as an elite OC and maybe HC someday if he continues this.

But he's also tied to this HC and frankly, there is no reason Garrett should get an extension unless this season takes a drastic shift. And if he has to go at season's end, the entire staff has to be purged most likely, including Moore.

But I feel hesitant letting Moore walk. Hmmm..................

I thought about this today. I’m not as high on Moore as you are but for a first time coach he’s doing a great job. Doing well enough that I don’t want to get rid of him at seasons end. And I don’t think this team will either which is why I think our next head coach is from within which the only legit candidate is Richard. Hire anyone else and you have to probably say bye to Moore.

 

[9of11]

Like what I've seen from Moore... I didn't expect much but I'm very excited about his plays and designs. I still think Moore is being held back by Jason... I believe our offense can be just as explosive as KC but Jason is in the way....Jason can't Change and never will.

 

[Big_D]

There is absolutely no way with the talent this offense has that you hand the OC job to a guy with 1 year coaching experience. I really like Moore, but this move was just another poor decision. There's a learning curve and this team didn't have time for it.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I mentioned before the season start that as giddy as we all maybe with Moore, he is a 2nd year coach and first year OC...although he may have a bright future, he is got a learning curve, and NFL DCs will school him a few times during the season.

"..Zimmer continued to dare Moore to run the ball and he fell for the trap by doing so..." and Moore fell for that trap, by doing exactly that and those little things make the difference in a close game. he got too smart for his own good, running twice close to the end zone. I guess he thought he is crossing Zimmer by running, and they would be expecting a pass...

Wasn't it the other way around? They dared us to pass the ball and we ran anyway?

And what makes you so sure that its Moore that is making these all these decisions? Could be.

Overall, Moore has been a breath of fresh air. We have the #1 ranked offense in football and Dak and the passing game are absolutely killing it. However, we still seem to see that conservative, Garrett influence in certain situations like at the beginning of games and the end of games.

It seems when we drop the original game plan and Moore is allowed to free flow with the passing game, we dominate.

Then we come back out at halftime and do the same conservative nonsense again.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Our O-line got schooled!

The video shows different. Pass blocking was great and the run blocking was not as bad as some showed. Clip after clip of the line blocking the play and Zeke simply doing nothing with it.

 

[Ranched]

I mentioned before the season start that as giddy as we all maybe with Moore, he is a 2nd year coach and first year OC...although he may have a bright future, he is got a learning curve, and NFL DCs will school him a few times during the season.

Speak for yourself. I speak for many fans who were opposed on having Moore as the new OC. He was playing QB just a year ago and has spent one season in a true coaching role.

I know he was credited for being an assistant to the coaches during his playing career, but he's to inexperienced to be an OC for the NFL. Especially when it comes to helping clapper.

He's definitely not the "genius" some fans in here quoted him to be. Hire someone with experience. Majority of the Cowboys fanbase doesn't want to wait till he's experienced with a few more years under his belt. Bad enough we've been waiting for Garrett to get experienced....oh wait.

 

[CouchCoach]

There is absolutely no way with the talent this offense has that you hand the OC job to a guy with 1 year coaching experience. I really like Moore, but this move was just another poor decision. There's a learning curve and this team didn't have time for it.

That's your perspective, and mine as well, because we want to win now. The Joneses know they don't have to win now. Winning is not the number one priority to them.

They like Moore, his demeanor, and feel he can be a fit down the road for the HC job. And we all know the requirements of that job and it's not winning rings. It's understanding the role of the HC within the organization.

Look at it this way. No HC is going to influence Booger until he gains his trust and Moore's got a jump on that.

 

[xwalker]

I mentioned before the season start that as giddy as we all maybe with Moore, he is a 2nd year coach and first year OC...although he may have a bright future, he is got a learning curve, and NFL DCs will school him a few times during the season.

"..Zimmer continued to dare Moore to run the ball and he fell for the trap by doing so..." and Moore fell for that trap, by doing exactly that and those little things make the difference in a close game. he got too smart for his own good, running twice close to the end zone. I guess he thought he is crossing Zimmer by running, and they would be expecting a pass...

The exact coaching roles/responsibilities are NOT clear.

Does Garrett say run or pass at times like Parcells or Jimmy would do with their O-Coordinators?

The specifics of the run scheme are likely all set prior to the game. I doubt if Moore could make an alteration to the actually run blocking assignments during the game.

On one of those run plays, it was a good play call against that alignment; however, the blocking assignments for Martin and Frederick should have been reversed. Fred attempted to block a LB and Martin block a DT. If Fred had blocked the DT Martin could easily have reached the LB to make that block. Some other teams would block it similar to how I'm suggesting.

 

[CouchCoach]

Speak for yourself. I speak for many fans who were opposed on having Moore as the new OC. He was playing QB just a year ago and has spent one season in a true coaching role.

I know he was credited for being an assistant to the coaches during his playing career, but he's to inexperienced to be an OC for the NFL. Especially when it comes to helping clapper.

He's definitely not the "genius" some fans in here quoted him to be. Hire someone with experience. Majority of the Cowboys fanbase doesn't want to wait till he's experienced with a few more years under his belt. Bad enough we've been waiting for Garrett to get experienced....oh wait.

I agree with that, for this season, but what other OC's were available?

It is an experiment but he had the endorsement of the players, particularly the QB and has he not improved under Moore and Kitna? Is the offense not better?

There are a number of coaches that have been around for a long time that really aren't much better than they were when first starting out. They get their training, learn their principles and apply them. They must all gain the experience to where they're not seeing something for the first time.

I agree, not everyone was on board but one thing they should have been on board about. There would be a learning curve and there would be mistakes just as there were with McVay, Shanahan and Shottenheimer. Everyone got to get their start somewhere and we just thin the Cowboys are too special to be that for Moore.

And when critiquing him, make sure we're not holding execution against him. He didn't miss that block that buried that play.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

There is absolutely no way with the talent this offense has that you hand the OC job to a guy with 1 year coaching experience. I really like Moore, but this move was just another poor decision. There's a learning curve and this team didn't have time for it.

Yup, this team is built to win NOW - you don't put such an inexperienced coach in such an important position.

Especially with a young QB, we don't have time for him to "learn on the job".

 

[Big_D]

That's your perspective, and mine as well, because we want to win now. The Joneses know they don't have to win now. Winning is not the number one priority to them.

They like Moore, his demeanor, and feel he can be a fit down the road for the HC job. And we all know the requirements of that job and it's not winning rings. It's understanding the role of the HC within the organization.

Look at it this way. No HC is going to influence Booger until he gains his trust and Moore's got a jump on that.

He did the same in 2007. Then gave the speech that he regrets not getting players like Romo and Witten a championship. Jerry being comfortable is the obvious priority, but it will never pay off. Then he can give that same speech down the line for Dak and co. Making a living out of pretending to care.. but moves like this tell another story.

 

[Big_D]

Yup, this team is built to win NOW - you don't put such an inexperienced coach in such an important position.

Especially with a young QB, we don't have time for him to "learn on the job".

Same in 2007. The guy really never learns anything at all. It's amazing how experience or an actual resume mean absolutely nothing here.

 

[jwooten15]

That was not McVay's first or second season, he'd been a coach since 2008 and an OC since 2014. Shanahan has been in coaching since 2004 and an OC since 2008.

Learning is his only excuse at this point and he's facing some good DC's for his education. He's OC on a team that wants to run the ball, needs to run the ball, and the DC's know this and will continue to do what Zimmer did. Until he proves he can beat it, that is the template they will all use. Most likely, when he goes to NE, Belichick will take Elliot and Cooper out of it. Moore needs to watch the film of the D Belichick put up against the Rams, he's going to see a version of the same thing.

That point was moreso speaking to Garrett and the continual learning-on-the-job excuses that have been made. But I get where you're coming from

 

[TwoDeep3]

OJT seems to be a theme with Jerry.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

One thing to consider with promoting Moore, that is not necessarily a move for this season but the future. They're willing to allow the learning curve this season to see what he can be in the long run. They like him, liked him a lot when he came to the team and they want to know if he is the future.

With the DC's he's facing this season, what a great opportunity to get a crash course in OC, talk about your trial by fire.

And while we'd like to run Garrett out on a rail, if you look back at his stats when he was calling the plays, he was top 10 so he's not an idiot about offense. Can't consider his entire tenure as OC/HC without considering the good years the offense had and most of the time, that was all the team had.

I think you are correct that Moore has a bright future, I am just not sure if its here and if jerry doesn't make the same mistake of forcing him upon his next coach and leave it up to the coach to hire his staff.


and despite all the hate on garrett, since most fans want to put the blame on a single place to make themselves feel better, I do think that garrett was a decent OC, he did produce a lot of top 10 offenses, but as a head coach, his situational game management has been very sub par that has caused us a lot of games and thus the anger towards him.

also he has to put up with jerry meddling. there were rumors last year, that he wanted to move on from Linehan, but Jerry over ruled..... so in essence the puppet! and you can only blame the puppet so much, and ultimately it falls on the puppet master.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I'm guessing, assuming they actually move on from Garrett, the top 2 candidates are going to be Matt Eberfluss and Dan Campbell. Both in that Jerry is familiar with them, he can push both into keeping Moore and Kitna after the season Dak is having and not wanting to burden Dak with having to learn a retweaked or new offense 2 years in a row!

some one mentioned Roman from Baltimore. he has done pretty good up there with the offense.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

yeh, it does feel like Kellen Moore is still going through his learning curves and growing pains, and games like Minny are going to be the result of it.

Can Garrett an supposedly great offensive mind himself according to Jerry, help with this inexperience as the game(s) go on, .or is it completely in Kellen's hand to burn and learn ?

well, according to Jerry, if Kellen doesn't get to run the show, he can come straight to him....that's what Jerry said. which in essence makes Garrett a true puppet, thus you can only blame the puppet so much and at some point the blame lays at the feet of the puppet master