Why did Dallas draft Leighton Vander Esch?

[ClappingCarrot]

No no no no no. We are drafting well.

Stephen Jones told me so.

 

[CouchCoach]

More concerned on why they paid Jaylon.

And became investors in his business.

 

[erod]

Well, who did we miss out on? That's the bigger question.

Darius Leonard, Calvin Ridley, Lamar Jackson, and a bunch of good offensive linemen.

 

[BoysForLife]

No it wasn't. The entire defense fell apart if Lee got hurt for like 5 straight years.

Your recollection isn't exactly accurate.

We transitioned from 3-4 to 4-3 during Eberflus tenure and the LB group was probably the strongest part of our defense during his time here.

Even Bruce Carter played well under Eberflus.

I don't think it's any accident that our LB play has seemingly gotten steadily worse since he left.
We made a mistake letting Eberflus walk.

 

[Future]

Mike Fisher reported it on The Fan a few weeks ago.

So no link, not confirmed, complete speculation.

 

[erod]

Stenosis is not the end all. Once the inflammation comes off the nerve he will be fine. He took a shot that injured a disc in his neck. Probly a bulge.

It's not the end all for receivers or corners, but it's not good for running backs or linebackers for sure.

Especially when he's had this injury several times now.

 

[Hoofbite]

Man this whole history of neck problems seemed to pop up out of no where. Is it just me? I know there are some fans who follow the draft real closely and they probably new of the concerns but I feel like most people didn't even know he had a history. I remember one time during his rookie season his neck plate was brought up by the announcers but they said it was just for looks and style.

Mayock apparently reported he had a "cervical issue" that prompted some teams to remove him from their board entirely. That post doesn't mention being removed but I'm nearly positive I read that it was the case.

 

[Future]

Your recollection isn't exactly accurate.

We transitioned from 3-4 to 4-3 during Eberflus tenure and the LB group was probably the strongest part of our defense during his time here.

Even Bruce Carter played well under Eberflus.

I don't think it's any accident that our LB play has seemingly gotten steadily worse since he left.
We made a mistake letting Eberflus walk.

Strongest part of an all-time bad defense doesn't mean anything. The entire defense was garbage.

Bruce Carter sucked, and never even came close to reaching his potential.

He's been gone two years. The LBers were the best they've been in a decade last year. This year, our best one is hurt.

I agree that we should have kept Eberflus (just made him DC), but he didn't get anything out of the LBer group that their talent didn't allow.

 

[Proof]

i'd assume because he's a stud, and it's not a new condition.

 

[Proof]

Man this whole history of neck problems seemed to pop up out of no where. Is it just me? I know there are some fans who follow the draft real closely and they probably new of the concerns but I feel like most people didn't even know he had a history. I remember one time during his rookie season his neck plate was brought up by the announcers but they said it was just for looks and style.

I just remember them saying something about him having a "narrowing spine" or something like that, but that it wasn't a huge issue.

 

[DFWJC]

Why did we draft Taco Charlton, Greg Ellis over Randy Moss, Julius Jones over Stephen Jackson, two number 1's for Joey Galloway...The check writer wants to be Jimmy at evaluating talent and he just isn't...

Plus, Dallas has actually drafted better than the vast majority of the league over the last 6-7 years

The anomaly, for me, in the LVE draft was seeing a transformational player like Derwin James drop all the way down to 17 and us not try hard to trade up to get him. 3 trades took place right ahead of him.

Hind site.

Also, that other stuff is very old news too, but for trading won in the 2004 draft, Dallas got Julius Jones AND a 2005 1st round pick. Not just Julius Jones.
With that pick, Bill Parcells selected Marcus Spears instead of Aaron Rodgers
Just sayin

 

[BoysForLife]

Strongest part of an all-time bad defense doesn't mean anything. The entire defense was garbage.

Bruce Carter sucked, and never even came close to reaching his potential.

He's been gone two years. The LBers were the best they've been in a decade last year. This year, our best one is hurt.

I agree that we should have kept Eberflus (just made him DC), but he didn't get anything out of the LBer group that their talent didn't allow.

Carter's worst season in Dallas his 3 years as a starter was 70 tackles. he had 9 TFL that year. Also had 5 INterceptions in his last year in Dallas.

the 4 years after he left Dallas, he had 71 tackles combined and 5 tackles for loss in those 4 years.

What am I missing?

 

[HappyOnions]

Well the man was second team all-pro as a rookie. His ceiling still remains very high.

Our defense is straight out of 2004 or something like that. Let's get a competent coaching staff in here before we start truly judging some of these young players: Jaylon, Dak, LVE, etc

 

[Future]

Carter's worst season in Dallas his 3 years as a starter was 70 tackles. he had 9 TFL that year. Also had 5 INterceptions in his last year in Dallas.

the 4 years after he left Dallas, he had 71 tackles combined and 5 tackles for loss in those 4 years.

What am I missing?

You are missing the fact that Carter wasn't good, especially not relative to his athleticism. He was a first-round talent whose only good season came in a contract year.

If anything, the fact that Carter didn't stick for a long time, and wasn't productive earlier in his career is an indictment of Eberflus' coaching.

 

[BoysForLife]

You are missing the fact that Carter wasn't good, especially not relative to his athleticism. He was a first-round talent whose only good season came in a contract year.

If anything, the fact that Carter didn't stick for a long time, and wasn't productive earlier in his career is an indictment of Eberflus' coaching.

Actually his best year for tackles was the year before his contract year. He just had more INT's during his contract year and it was probably a result of the switch to 4-3 which was responsible for that rather than his contract situation.

He was a solid LB in Dallas who fell off the map the minute he left. This is counterintuitive to what happens to most of our players who seem to get better when they leave Dallas.

 

[Future]

Actually his best year for tackles was the year before his contract year. He just had more INT's during his contract year and it was probably a result of the switch to 4-3 which was responsible for that rather than his contract situation.

He was a solid LB in Dallas who fell off the map the minute he left. This is counterintuitive to what happens to most of our players who seem to get better when they leave Dallas.

He was not solid in Dallas, and number of tackles is not indicative of good LB play. He only had more the year before b/c he missed two extra games in his contract year anyway.

The guy never cared about football and never played particularly hard. He was a part of the problem on those teams. He's a poor player to defend.

 

[BoysForLife]

He was not solid in Dallas, and number of tackles is not indicative of good LB play. He only had more the year before b/c he missed two extra games in his contract year anyway.

The guy never cared about football and never played particularly hard. He was a part of the problem on those teams. He's a poor player to defend.

So a guy who "never cared about football" and "didn't play particularly hard", still looks good enough to get signed to a big deal by another team and then never produces even a fraction elsewhere of what he produced in Dallas.

To me, that's a strong case for the LB coach. Not against him. But anyways we're just going in circles. We should agree to disagree I guess because neither one of us is changing our minds.

 

[Aven8]

Linebacker was a pretty good strength on this team before we let Matt Eberflus walk....

Just saying.....

Both the LB’s and secondary have went backwards from a year ago. These are young players that should be getting better. Can’t wait for the new regime

 

[Creeper]

I've been researching this story about LVE having some kind of neck issue in college and what I have found so far is one site, Walter Football, wrote a story that 1 team had taken Vander Esch off their draft board for medical reasons. But according to Pro Football Weekly, who obtained a copy of the medical report on LVE from the combine, in that report LVE was given a 4 out of 5 indicating no serious medical concerns. Furthermore, LVE was not asked to return for a medical re-check, again indicating there were no concerns about a lingering injury or chronic condition. Walter Football did not indicate in their story why a team took LVE off their draft board, or what the injury concern was.

It seems the bigger concern about LVE was that he had not played in many games in college only starting in games his last year before the draft.

LVE had a knee injury in college and in September of 2018 suffered a neck stinger in a game. Doctors at Boise State found a nerve impingement but after rest and treatment he returned to the playing field wearing a neck roll. I am going to bet the neck roll may have created more cause for concern than any actual medical report.

As a person who has experienced a nerve impingement in my neck I can state from experience that it is fully understandable that LVE would suffer a nerve impingement from the type of impact he took when he was injured. The way his neck bent with simultaneous compression to the vertebrae is almost certain to cause a disk rupture or bulge even in people who have never had any previous neck problems, which was my case. I can also state from experience that it can take a really long time to fix the problem and reduce the pain and swelling. The impingement causes pain, stiffness and weakness/numbness in the arms and fingers. I could not pick up a glass of water with my left hand for weeks. However, after a few months, the disk receded, the pain subsided and my strength returned. I have not had any problems since then. Of course, I don't play football. The counter argument is I don't have a medical staff to work with me constantly either.

The point is, this is not something LVE necessarily brought with him to the Cowboys. It probably is the result of the awkward hit he took to the head. This doesn't mean he will not have lifelong issues with his neck. In my case, the bulging disks were not ruptured and returned to normal. In his case, he could have more severe damage necessitating more severe forms of treatment. Neck injuries are the same as back injuries just effecting different nerves. Anyone who has followed Tiger Woods's career is familiar what can happen with a back injury that gets progressively worse. It is understandable why Dallas is being very cautious with LVE and it would not surprise me if he does not play again in 2019.

 

[OmerV]

Who cares? They drafted him. He's a Cowboy now. Maybe let's root for him to remain healthy and productive as long as possible instead of rueing the day the Cowboys took him. Whether you agreed with it or not, that pick isn't remotely the reason this defense sucks.

A more appropriate question might be why did Dallas sign Monte Kiffin way past his prime, Marinelli way past his prime, Richards off being fired? Why did they play Byron Jones at safety when he was clearly a corner and sit Jourdan Lewis when he's so obviously better than Brown?

Many of these questions are pretty easy to answer, although not all.

Kiffen was an attempt to latch onto something from the past, but Marinelli had been the DC over some of the top defenses in the NFL in Chicago before the Cowboys hired him, and even then the Cowboys originally only hired him as a D-Line coach, and promoted him after Kiffen failed. To me, the hire seemed reasonable at the time, but the problem is the Cowboys stubbornly stuck with him even when it was clear he wasn't working out.

As for Byron Jones question, he wasn't just a CB - he played safety his first two years in college - and the Cowboys had the bigger need at safety when he first came into the NFL.

As for Richard, he was fired as a DC, and hired as a DB coach, which is what he coached with Seattle when they won the Super Bowl. Not being successful as a DC didn't eliminate him from being a DB coach.