Bob Sturm Has Been Great To Listen To About McCarthy

Keithfansince5

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This is true. I have been saying for several years now that I felt as if the pendulum was swinging back in the NFL. I mean, the passing game is here to stay so it's never going to be like it was but, the run game is coming back and balance is really the key IMO. I'm not a believer in Dak's abilities to win games in a pass heavy Offense. We have consistently shown that the formula for us to win is in the area of 25 to 30 carries for 125 to 200 yards rushing and 20 to 25 passes for 220 to 250 yards and no TOs. That formula is highly successful for this team. 15 carries for 80 to 100 yards and 30 passes for 300 is not. We are built to wear down opposing Defenses and basically get up on them and take out all the air in the room. Now, if you want to say that we are going to a high octane Offense that throws 35 to 50 times a game, OK, but that means seriously retooling our personnel. It means that you need to rethink the OL, you probably need to go to a two back system, you need to go out and find two significantly better TEs and you need to have a QB who can be a much better passer. Defensively, you need to go to a Defense that can really rush the passer and you need to have DBs who can cover because if you implement a high octane Offense, that means you are going to face teams trying to throw the ball a lot. It means you have to be able to rush the passer and stop completions all over the field. Now, the Defense probably needs to be reworked anyway but we are currently not the team who can bring the heat. That's not how we were built and our current personnel does not fit that style of attacking defense. What it really means is that you now are looking at a lot of changes on both sides of the ball. That's going to cost money, resources and time. We are trying to win now, according to everything we hear so I'm not sure how this really fits.

I think it's a mistake to do this but hey, nobody pays me to think football so...........
Agreed :thumbup:
 

ABQCOWBOY

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will do.

2003 Deuce McCallister

rushed for 1641 yds and 8 Td's & 516 receiving yards.

in all three of McCarthy's seasons as OC in NO McCallister rushed for over 1000 yds. Topping 1200 twice.

He has a great player in Zeke and I can't imagine he doesn't know exactly how to use him just like he did with Ricky Williams and Deuce McCallister

So you think that Zeke can be Duece McCallister? OK, like I say, talk to me when it happens and BTW, NO was 8-8 in 2003. So now what? We gonna talk about 2002, 9-7. 2001, 7-9. Now we can talk about 2000 when NO was 10-6 but that team was not pass happy and there was no McCallister. That team was a much more balanced team built around Ricky Williams and a strong Defense. Jim Haslett and Ron Zook were the driving factors around that team and it was still heavily influenced by Ditka. McCarthy's style of Offense was really not implemented till the next year, when they fell off the playoff table.

So yeah, tell me all about it.
 

MikeB80

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So you think that Zeke can be Duece McCallister? OK, like I say, talk to me when it happens and BTW, NO was 8-8 in 2003. So now what? We gonna talk about 2002, 9-7. 2001, 7-9. Now we can talk about 2000 when NO was 10-6 but that team was not pass happy and there was no McCallister. That team was a much more balanced team built around Ricky Williams and a strong Defense. Jim Haslett and Ron Zook were the driving factors around that team and it was still heavily influenced by Ditka. McCarthy's style of Offense was really not implemented till the next year, when they fell off the playoff table.

So yeah, tell me all about it.

oh so you are changing your argument now because you didn't realize that mccarthy has coached teams with great running backs and rushing attacks? now it's about the teams record?

figures.

My point stands, when McCarthy has had a top flight player at RB he has used them and they produced. Zeke will be the best running back he has ever been around and he will use him extensively.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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oh so you are changing your argument now because you didn't realize that mccarthy has coached teams with great running backs and rushing attacks? now it's about the teams record?

figures.

My point stands, when McCarthy has had a top flight player at RB he has used them and they produced. Zeke will be the best running back he has ever been around and he will use him extensively.

Not even a little bit. First of all, the argument was never about other RBs. It was about Zeke and the contract, which still isn't looking better to me. You are trying to bring up RBs, who never came close to rushing for the league Title. You bring up Deuce McCallister in McCarthy's NO Offenses, OK. Well, how many rushing titles did McCallister win? Never mind the fact that he never won in Nola, running his Offense. Beside the point for this discussion. Again, you are oblivious to the point that I was trying to make. The contract for Zeke is not looking better to me. Figure it out here Mike.
 

MikeB80

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Not even a little bit. First of all, the argument was never about other RBs. It was about Zeke and the contract, which still isn't looking better to me. You are trying to bring up RBs, who never came close to rushing for the league Title. You bring up Deuce McCallister in McCarthy's NO Offenses, OK. Well, how many rushing titles did McCallister win? Never mind the fact that he never won in Nola, running his Offense. Beside the point for this discussion. Again, you are oblivious to the point that I was trying to make. The contract for Zeke is not looking better to me. Figure it out here Mike.

I did figure it out. You have a grudge with zeke and therefore his contract is bad.

The reality is McCarthy knows how to use a player like this because he has done it in the past and Zeke is the best one he will have ever had to hand the ball off to coupled with a terrific offensive line.

what does a rushing title have to do with anything? Jammal Lewis rushed for 2000 yards in 03 when McCallister had his best season under McCarthy.

You can not admit when someone else is right and just keep changing the argument. You didn't know McCarthy has coached big time rushing attacks before and changed the discussion.

Zeke's contract is fine and he is going to have a tremendous season after a full offseason.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I did figure it out. You have a grudge with zeke and therefore his contract is bad.

The reality is McCarthy knows how to use a player like this because he has done it in the past and Zeke is the best one he will have ever had to hand the ball off to coupled with a terrific offensive line.

what does a rushing title have to do with anything? Jammal Lewis rushed for 2000 yards in 03 when McCallister had his best season under McCarthy.

You can not admit when someone else is right and just keep changing the argument. You didn't know McCarthy has coached big time rushing attacks before and changed the discussion.

Zeke's contract is fine and he is going to have a tremendous season after a full offseason.

Your story, you tell it. Just go tell it to somebody else. I've spent all the time I can afford, trying to appease you. You missed the point of the conversation I was trying to have. You mixed yourself up, you didn't listen to what I was trying to explain to you about MY POST, but instead tried to fit it into your agenda and then pissed all over your own leg trying to avoid the fact that you screwed up the entire point of the discussion I was trying to have.

I've wasted enough of my time on you. See ya.
 

visionary

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Not to beat a dead-horse, but... I don't think the issue is getting the real "Zeke" back. It is more an issue of his contract. Regardless what Zeke brings, it is still hard to rationalize that size of a contract for what amounts to a completely fungible asset... RB.

Sorry, didn't mean to de-rail the thread by resurrecting the whole Zeke contract debate

no problem
You and I just disagree on the value of a great RB
I think a RB like Zeke will be ‘worth it’ if used properly
 

MikeB80

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Your story, you tell it. Just go tell it to somebody else. I've spent all the time I can afford, trying to appease you. You missed the point of the conversation I was trying to have. You mixed yourself up, you didn't listen to what I was trying to explain to you about MY POST, but instead tried to fit it into your agenda and then pissed all over your own leg trying to avoid the fact that you screwed up the entire point of the discussion I was trying to have.

I've wasted enough of my time on you. See ya.

oh boy.

McCarthy never runs the ball and has never had a good back.....oh he has? well you just pissed down your own leg now go away.

Lol. Cant wait till next year when zeke is among the best players in the league.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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oh boy.

McCarthy never runs the ball and has never had a good back.....oh he has? well you just pissed down your own leg now go away.

Lol. Cant wait till next year when zeke is among the best players in the league.

Excellent! Then may I assume that I won't have to hear from you till next year? Excellent!
 

Blackspider214

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oh so you are changing your argument now because you didn't realize that mccarthy has coached teams with great running backs and rushing attacks? now it's about the teams record?

figures.

My point stands, when McCarthy has had a top flight player at RB he has used them and they produced. Zeke will be the best running back he has ever been around and he will use him extensively.

Had we actually utilized Zeke this season and stuck with him, we'd have won the division by a few games. It was criminal how we utilized Zeke this year. I get he had a lot of yards but I am talking situationally. Especially that Eagles game. Dak has a bad shoulder. You could tell he was off. So what does this staff do? Air it out baby!! 44 passes and only 13 rushes from Zeke. 15 overall. Zeke touched the ball 5 times in a close game. Ridiculous. And don't get me started on the gameplan of the GB playoff game in 2016. We completely revert to something we were not. 3rd and 1 on the opening drive and we pass 25yds downfield and settle for a FG. Garrett was so stupid.
 

jnday

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sounds like he is pass happy. I don't care one way or the other as long as it works....
He seems like the last coach in the world that should have been hired if they want the proper use of the oline and Zeke. It brings into question just how much will the oline and Zeke’s talents be underused. If Zeke is just going to be another RB that gets a lot of passes thrown to him, a trade should be in the future because finding pass-catching RBs is easy and cheap. Keeping Zeke to catch passes would be a massive waste of resources.
 

MikeB80

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Had we actually utilized Zeke this season and stuck with him, we'd have won the division by a few games. It was criminal how we utilized Zeke this year. I get he had a lot of yards but I am talking situationally. Especially that Eagles game. Dak has a bad shoulder. You could tell he was off. So what does this staff do? Air it out baby!! 44 passes and only 13 rushes from Zeke. 15 overall. Zeke touched the ball 5 times in a close game. Ridiculous. And don't get me started on the gameplan of the GB playoff game in 2016. We completely revert to something we were not. 3rd and 1 on the opening drive and we pass 25yds downfield and settle for a FG. Garrett was so stupid.

preaching to the choir! Zeke and the running game are the identity of this team. I knew there was going to be trouble when Kitna was comparing Dak to Warren Moon in the summer. After two years of hearing how Linehan was holding Dak back I was worried they were going to come out and be a passing team and they were.

New Coach, new system and a full offseason for zeke tells me zeke will have a great year next year.
 

MikeB80

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He seems like the last coach in the world that should have been hired if they want the proper use of the oline and Zeke. It brings into question just how much will the oline and Zeke’s talents be underused. If Zeke is just going to be another RB that gets a lot of passes thrown to him, a trade should be in the future because finding pass-catching RBs is easy and cheap. Keeping Zeke to catch passes would be a massive waste of resources.

do a little research.
 

32BellyOption

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The WCO in general relies more on backs in the passing game, multiple TEs in the passing game, less on running the ball in a traditional balanced ball control Offense. What it does is it allows you to use the pass in place of the run game but what it doesn't do it wear down the opposing Offense with a physical style in the run game.

It may or may not be a good thing, that remains to be seen but the post is about the contract. I've said this a few times already. This is not about if we get production out of the run game or not. It's about how much we paid Zeke and IMO, the Zeke deal is looking worse running McCarthy's Offense. We are paying Zeke to lead the league in rushing year in year out, or at least be in the top two or three in the league. The reason, we were told, for paying him was the shortened career because of the physical style of play and the beating he would take. Now, if we are no longer running that style of Offense, if Zeke is not in contention for the rushing title year in, year out, then the contract is not worth the money we paid because we can hire backs who fit McCarthy's offense much cheaper. We have one on the team right now in Tony Pollard. He, to me, might be a better fit for McCarthy's Offense and he is much cheaper.

I hear what you’re saying but then again MCCarthy has never had a back like Zeke. Who’s to say he won’t pound him as much as we have already? And honestly if he gets his yards via the passing game or running game I don’t care as long we win. And if he’s more of a threat catching the ball it may open up the running game for all and lead to more long runs. Bottom lone for me if we win a SB and Zeke finishes 5th in the league rushing its money well spent.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I hear what you’re saying but then again MCCarthy has never had a back like Zeke. Who’s to say he won’t pound him as much as we have already? And honestly if he gets his yards via the passing game or running game I don’t care as long we win. And if he’s more of a threat catching the ball it may open up the running game for all and lead to more long runs. Bottom lone for me if we win a SB and Zeke finishes 5th in the league rushing its money well spent.

I agree, it's about winning but still, I hate paying top dollar for what we will probably be able to get for a lot less. Can't help but feel like it probably costs us a good player or two. I don't know, I guess we'll see what happens. I seriously would not be surprised to see us keep Zeke for a season or two and then maybe move on. It's tough but I could see it happening.
 

MikeB80

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I hear what you’re saying but then again MCCarthy has never had a back like Zeke. Who’s to say he won’t pound him as much as we have already? And honestly if he gets his yards via the passing game or running game I don’t care as long we win. And if he’s more of a threat catching the ball it may open up the running game for all and lead to more long runs. Bottom lone for me if we win a SB and Zeke finishes 5th in the league rushing its money well spent.

He has. Keep reading through the thread. He has had good backs and when he has they have produced.
 

32BellyOption

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I agree, it's about winning but still, I hate paying top dollar for what we will probably be able to get for a lot less. Can't help but feel like it probably costs us a good player or two. I don't know, I guess we'll see what happens. I seriously would not be surprised to see us keep Zeke for a season or two and then maybe move on. It's tough but I could see it happening.

I do feel like he was under used this past season, especially in crucial situations. I hope MCCarthy doesn’t get pass happy either. I’m sure Jerry and Stephen have an understanding with McCarthy that this team is built around Zeke and our offensive line. It’ll be interesting to see how much more, if any, Zeke is in a new offense.
 

Blackspider214

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I am sure it has been discussed but McCarthy was the OC for the Saints when they had Ricky Williams. He carried the ball over 300 times and caught 60 balls. He will use a bell cow RB when he has one. He just rarely had one in GB. They always leaned on Favre and Rodgers.
 
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