Long term thinking in a short term game

Redball Express · Feb 17, 2020

CouchCoach said:
The stumbling block in getting this QB deal done seems to be the term of the contract and the Cowboys do not want to find themselves back here again in 4 years. Prescott is young enough that he will most likely get another contract and they evidently fear he will improve and deliver and they will be at his mercy and the mercy of a QB league gone wild.

Well, what did SF do when they had Montana, GB when they had Favre, NE when they had Brady and KC with Smith? Got the replacement before they needed him.

This seems very simple to me in this rags to riches to rags league and windows of opportunity. Where was SF in 2018? 4-12, second worst record in the NFC and in 2019? 13-3, best record in the NFC and in the SB. One year, two different teams. Will they be able to hold that team together? Probably not but who cares? They took that one to the Big Dance.

If they're concerned about the solution with the next contract with this QB, don't be, don't even consider another contract with him. They hired a QB oriented HC, make his assignment to find the next franchise QB before this QB's contract expires because he's hitting the bricks before or when it expires. That is his priority #2.

This keeping the family together thinking has no place with successful teams. If the Niners could part with Montana, Rice and Lott and GB with Favre and NE willing to trade Brady, long term thinking has no place in today's NFL. View every player, including the Witten's, as passing through and a hired gun. Every player is expendable and replaceable by the team, not on their own.

Accept that their not going to keep the band together, it's going to be like Poco, not often the same players from album to album but great players along the way.

Now, get this done. Get all of the players either gone and replaced or renewed and the team set for the season. No hold out distractions like they had last year, get the team ready for the season, a season of nothing but the game of football, not the business of football.

There is no team in all of sports with built in opportunities for distractions like the Cowboys. The team was inconsistent last season and underachieved because of distractions. The job of any FO is to limit those, not create them. Get the football team all about football.

I agree 1000%.

Under Garrett, for 10 years they tried to build a dynasty reminiscent of the 90's Cowboys.

Their whole mantra was back to the future.

Unfortunately..

Garrett was no Jimmy Johnson and Romo was no Aikman. And Jones tried twice to find his new Michael Irvin in trading for Galloway and Roy Williams.

It all failed to return the team for former glory.

It just extended the decline.

So now the team is having to reshuffle the deck and change its directions.

I agree the franchise needs to adopt more short term directions. Stop trying to create a team with a half dozen premium paid players towing games for 53 players.

They get injured, worn down and suffer short effective careers and if they still have a mega contract, we have to eat it when they no longer are productive.

Instead, focus on acquiring the best talent across the roster and shape the schemes and game play to those assets.

Every 3-5 years, turn the roster over if it's not winning. Cut the contracts and reclaim the cap and start again.

In the trends we see now, teams that have rosters full of high priced players will die quickly and have to have fire sales that will take years to recover from.

Look at us. We are 25 years and counting from our last championship.

We never have succeeded in the FA Era.

Why? Because we have tried so much to reinvent the football wheel. We have tried to reapply our old formulas about winning and never had any new approaches.

This post is spot on about something being used we have not ever tried.

Good post.

morat1959 · Feb 17, 2020

Kwyn said:
To read this forum, you can get an elite All-Pro QB in the fourth round of every draft. Hell, from the frequency of pairs here saying “just go get rookie and groom him to be Brady”, there are probably several of those available in every draft!

Well our 4th rounder is FAR from elite! He doesn’t have to be Brady. We just need a major upgrade at the QB position. Draft one, bring in a couple good FA’s...let’s see how that works out. We haven’t had one since Aikman was here. Romo was good...not elite. I was never a big Romo fan but he was LOTS better than Dak.

LittleD · Feb 17, 2020

morat1959 said:
Well our 4th rounder is FAR from elite! He doesn’t have to be Brady. We just need a major upgrade at the QB position. Draft one, bring in a couple good FA’s...let’s see how that works out. We haven’t had one since Aikman was here. Romo was good...not elite. I was never a big Romo fan but he was LOTS better than Dak.

Romo had his opportunities and couldn't get it done. Dak has had his 4 years of opportunities and couldn't get it done. Time to get what you can for Dak and start over. McCarthy is going to be given 3 years minimum to turn the ship around the iceberg.

morat1959 · Feb 17, 2020

LittleD said:
Romo had his opportunities and couldn't get it done. Dak has had his 4 years of opportunities and couldn't get it done. Time to get what you can for Dak and start over. McCarthy is going to be given 3 years minimum to turn the ship around the iceberg.

I couldn’t agree more but don’t ignore those 4,000+ yards fantasy #s! Lol

LittleD · Feb 17, 2020

morat1959 said:
I couldn’t agree more but don’t ignore those 4,000+ yards fantasy #s! Lol

Stats are for losers. Super Bowls are for Hall of Fame Winners.

morat1959 · Feb 17, 2020

LittleD said:
Stats are for losers. Super Bowls are for Hall of Fame Winners.

I think JJ is a big part of the problem with our fans. Lots on here have bought into his mediocrity=greatness just because they put on the Star. The bigger problem is a lot of the players act the same way!

LittleD · Feb 17, 2020

This whole exercise is easy. Trade Dak hopefully for a 1st and 3rd or 4th. Keep that 80-100mil cap space for filling out a team. Trade all of this years draft and
whatever you have to give up in next years draft to get Burroughs. He will be our Aikman and lead us to victory somewhere down the line.

Verdict · Feb 17, 2020

CouchCoach said:
There are some QB's behind the big 3 that are intriguing but the question is when should they take one? Guess that depends on what they do with Prescott because if they tag him, they have to take one and probably in the 1st round. They need D help but that would have to pull the trigger on a QB in the 1st and maybe the following year as well.

The problem with the Cowboys and their QB evaluating is that they're always looking for a suitable backup, not the eventual starter. Ironically, we're lucky that didn't break that mold by getting Lynch.

And here's where I like the idea of McC and Moore evaluating QB's because neither has ever done that for the Cowboys.

They really need to upgrade from Rush and preferably a guy that “pushes” Dak.

CouchCoach · Feb 17, 2020

Diehardblues said:
Fans often want to use the exception of failed QB’s in the 1st round instead of the more common success.

I don’t have the link handy but I read it last year I believe where about 80% of the starting QB’s in NFL come out of the 1st and 2nd rounds. So, whatever bust there are it’s still the place to look for your next QB.

But, Greg, that's not the elite QB you want. Prescott is just about as good as 80% of the QB1's in the NFL right now.

In a redraft of 2016, where would Prescott be picked now? He has far outperformed his draft round and I don't see a better QB in his draft class. Let's check him up against this draft class in a couple of years, we might be surprised.

The two considered the GOAT were picked in the 3rd and 6th rounds.

HungryLion · Feb 17, 2020

Diehardblues said:
Using the 19% of QB drafted who aren’t as successful is spinning the stats to support a negative narrative discrediting where most of the better franchise QB’s are drafted.

Um what? I’m not spinning anything or creating any type of narrative.

I also never said that the first round isn’t where most of the better QB’s are drafted.

You certainly seem to want to throw out the “spinning the narrative” line whenever somebody disagrees with you. It’s kind of tired to be honest. Instead of addressing what I said, about why I think “starting for two years” shouldn’t be the measure for QB success, you just complain about me “spinning a narrative”.

There are a bunch of QB’s drafted high, that start for multiple years, but aren’t any good and never amount to anything in the NFL. That’s just a fact, not a narrative, a fact.

CouchCoach · Feb 17, 2020

Verdict said:
They really need to upgrade from Rush and preferably a guy that “pushes” Dak.

They should have already done that but is it real to expect this brain trust to pick QB's. They are among the worst at it. And if posters think they can't do worse, they have....many times.

CouchCoach · Feb 17, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
Um what? I’m not spinning anything or creating any type of narrative.

I also never said that the first round isn’t where most of the better QB’s are drafted.

You certainly seem to want to throw out the “spinning the narrative” line whenever somebody disagrees with you. It’s kind of tired to be honest. Instead of addressing what I said, about why I think “starting for two years” shouldn’t be the measure for QB success, you just complain about me “spinning a narrative”.

There are a bunch of QB’s drafted high, that start for multiple years, but aren’t any good and never amount to anything in the NFL. That’s just a fact, not a narrative, a fact.

Yep but Greg thinks they're going to get an elite QB if they don't keep Prescott. Hell, he may be elite compared to what else these clowns would pick.

That has been my case for Prescott all along, he's good enough if they build a team around him and they've already got a head start on that with the O. Get a good D with a QB that protects the ball and they can win it all.

Diehardblues · Feb 17, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
Um what? I’m not spinning anything or creating any type of narrative.

I also never said that the first round isn’t where most of the better QB’s are drafted.

You certainly seem to want to throw out the “spinning the narrative” line whenever somebody disagrees with you. It’s kind of tired to be honest. Instead of addressing what I said, about why I think “starting for two years” shouldn’t be the measure for QB success, you just complain about me “spinning a narrative”.

There are a bunch of QB’s drafted high, that start for multiple years, but aren’t any good and never amount to anything in the NFL. That’s just a fact, not a narrative, a fact.

Yes but it’s a small percentage . Small enough that it doesn’t deter franchises from continuing going to the well.

I’m not sure why fans focus on the smaller percentage that bust? The only conclusion I can arrive at is spinning it to support a narrative, opinion or defending their guy.

Diehardblues · Feb 17, 2020

CouchCoach said:
Yep but Greg thinks they're going to get an elite QB if they don't keep Prescott. Hell, he may be elite compared to what else these clowns would pick.

That has been my case for Prescott all along, he's good enough if they build a team around him and they've already got a head start on that with the O. Get a good D with a QB that protects the ball and they can win it all.

How much better offense can we surround him with?

And with a Cap heavy offense will be very difficult to build an Elite defense to carry him.

We have less chance of winning it all with Dak than we had with Romo.

Not sure why we get so hung up on these QB’s without more success?

CouchCoach · Feb 17, 2020

gjkoeppen said:
There's a lot of foolishness here. Your little fairy tale you say every player is expendable so the implication is no team should ever resign a player, no matter how good he is because like you say they are all expendable and this is what good teams do. You say they always draft replacements so they can step in. Again you say that's what the good teams do. Now using the Cowboys they have 25 UFA and yes they aren't all absolute needs, but 6 of them are starters. My point here is tell me all of the teams that have drafted starters in ALL 7 rounds of the draft. So not every player is expendable because there are usually more contracts up than there are draft picks so some have to be resigned. Now as you say the good teams do this but the good teams draft at the bottom of the draft which means all the best players in each round are gone before their pick.

Now lets look at a your examples. Favre, who a couple of times after a season ended said he was going to retire only a short time later decide that he was going to play again. The packers drafted Rodgers and when his original contract was up he said he wouldn't resign again to sit so the packers resigned him and in Favre's 18th season they traded him so Rodgers could start. Same thing with Montana and Young. Montana traded after 15 seasons in SF and Young the younger QB wanting his chance or he would sign with another team. And that brings us to Rice. After 16 seasons in SF they moved on from him. All three of your examples are players that left their teams at the very tail end of their careers not how you made it sound like it was during their prime. Also none of those 3 did anything after leaving their original teams.

Lastly tell me all of the distractions during the last season that caused the players to not be able to concentrate on football?
.

I f that's what you got after reading the initial post, I can't help you. I can't read it and comprehend it for you.

All 3 of those players went to the playoffs after leaving their initial teams and Rice had numbers like Cooper at OAK. The point is they were replaced because their clubs did not believe any player could not be replaced and they went about the business of getting players so they could replace them. And they replaced PB players with PB players.

Diehardblues · Feb 17, 2020

CouchCoach said:
But, Greg, that's not the elite QB you want. Prescott is just about as good as 80% of the QB1's in the NFL right now.

In a redraft of 2016, where would Prescott be picked now? He has far outperformed his draft round and I don't see a better QB in his draft class. Let's check him up against this draft class in a couple of years, we might be surprised.

The two considered the GOAT were picked in the 3rd and 6th rounds.

I’m sorry. I don’t agree. And using these other examples may make you feel better about Dak but I dont see him as enough to overcome Jerry.

Not sure why we become so content with these less than Elite QB’s.

Most of the greats are taken high in the draft. Theres really no argument. These other examples simply provide you a narrative to support Dak.

Jerry couldn’t build a team around Romo. Why do you think he will with Dak?

CouchCoach · Feb 17, 2020

Diehardblues said:
How much better offense can we surround him with?

And with a Cap heavy offense will be very difficult to build an Elite defense to carry him.

We have less chance of winning it all with Dak than we had with Romo.

Not sure why we get so hung up on these QB’s without more success?

If they do not improve the D, I agree. They wouldn't win with an elite QB with that D.

As far as elite QB's go, why do Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have 1 ring each while E. Manning has 2?

Diehardblues · Feb 17, 2020

CouchCoach said:
If they do not improve the D, I agree. They wouldn't win with an elite QB with that D.

As far as elite QB's go, why do Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have 1 ring each while E. Manning has 2?

Yes but when they had the supporting cast they won it. That’s what separates the great ones.

How are we going to support Dak a better cast than we have after we pay him Elite money?

I’d much rather roll the dice and try to hit it big. If these last 4 years is all we are then what are we really risking?

Diehardblues · Feb 17, 2020

CouchCoach said:
If they do not improve the D, I agree. They wouldn't win with an elite QB with that D.

As far as elite QB's go, why do Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have 1 ring each while E. Manning has 2?

And if we’re going to prop Dak up with stats and #1 offense then we must give credit to our defense for being top 10 statistically .

If we had a more Elite QB it could already be enough. We really don’t know.

But imagine a QB closer to the Elite talent of our OL, RB and WR. That’s what I want!!!

I’m not sure why we settle for less at QB?

garyo1954 · Feb 17, 2020

Diehardblues said:
I’m sorry. I don’t agree. And using these other examples may make you feel better about Dak but I dont see him as enough.

Not sure why we become so content with these less than Elite QB’s.

It's conservative thinking reiterated time and again by Jason Garrett's protecting the ball, not making any mistakes.

People who don't make mistakes aren't doing anything.

Long term thinking in a short term game

Redball Express

All Aboard!!!

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