OL - Who would you trade?

CATCH17

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So you’ve backed off the idea of trading Dak along with two first rounders to Cincinnati for the number one pick? Frederick’s medical would keep us from getting much for him in a trade. He would be more valuable to us than anything we would get for him.

I said I would prefer not to trade any of our lineman.

As far as moving up for Burrow.. Yes.. Let's do it.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Just spitballing scenario's where you might have a better overall roster by trading away a proven player. Only have a limited number of options that would free up significant cap & return some value.

I guess I can't answer that one. I don't believe in trading away quality OLs if they are all under contract. If I had to trade somebody, I'd probably look elsewhere.
 

America's Cowboy

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Rule #1: Don't ever mess with a great Oline starting great talent. Redo their contracts if you have to create cap space during certain years, but you don't diminish your stud Oline just because you have an itch. That's just crazy talk. As long as they are producing, you keep it intact.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Considering financial implications and assuming that a trade came along that you considered fair,
A) Would you consider trading one of our three highly paid linemen?
B) If so, which one would you be most likely to trade?

For me, they are all good players and certainly there is emotional attachment. However, to be a good GM you gotta explore all options. So my answer would be yes.

I would be most likely to trade Zack or Travis simply because i think i can win without perennial pro bowlers in these positions and thus I can lower my % paid for the position group. I say this even though i am more worried about Tyron from a health \ consistency standpoint.

Ultimately i would probably lean toward trading Zack as I can probably get more for him & G not as critical for communication as C.
Fredrick..... Martin is too good to trade and we can't trade any of the tackles....
 

McKDaddy

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Martin has been an all-pro linemen since the day he stepped into the league
Understand your overall thoughts. Although very good I don't consider his last couple seasons to be on par with his earlier seasons. Wondering if i could get enough value in return to make it worthwhile.
 

Redball Express

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Considering financial implications and assuming that a trade came along that you considered fair,
A) Would you consider trading one of our three highly paid linemen?
B) If so, which one would you be most likely to trade?

For me, they are all good players and certainly there is emotional attachment. However, to be a good GM you gotta explore all options. So my answer would be yes.

I would be most likely to trade Zack or Travis simply because i think i can win without perennial pro bowlers in these positions and thus I can lower my % paid for the position group. I say this even though i am more worried about Tyron from a health \ consistency standpoint.

Ultimately i would probably lean toward trading Zack as I can probably get more for him & G not as critical for communication as C.
The OL was being built for the Romo Friendly years.

It was supposed to protect Romo and to be the line for Randle to run behind after DeMarco Murray moved on becuz they wanted to pay Dez instead.

And the rebuilding became the feature of the team until 2016 once Dak and Zeke arrived and Romo was injured. Enough review.

But understanding why it happened is important to understand.

The team had given Romo at the time the biggest contract in team history. In order to support that decision the team decided to pay out large contracts to the OL figuring they would get good mileage from OL rather than RB or the defense.

They already had paid Dez his new deal in 2015 so things were looking solid until reality sank in that by not resigning Murray and playing Randle lost the whole Cowboy mystique.

And to add insult to injury, Dez hit the skids and got cut before 2016.

Now the team had to scramble for a new RB and selected Collins in the Supplimemtal draft to finish rebuilding the OL.

I went thru all that for a reason. There is more to the story with Beard and Tyron Smith. This team will not do what you are suggesting.

Mostly because we have injury histories with Smith and Fitzgerald. Also with our LG and RT. Plus we have used high picks to draft backups for the OL.

So no way does Dallas trade away any starters at this point to save cap.

Dallas learned their lesson trying to win in 2015 without the OL horses in place or a dominant RB like Zeke.

So look for our draft and coaching staff to pickup the slack.

It's what the Jones' have their chips on.

We are watching.
 

Aviano90

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They already had paid Dez his new deal in 2015 so things were looking solid until reality sank in that by not resigning Murray and playing Randle lost the whole Cowboy mystique.
This is way overblown. Randle wasn't the issue in 2015. The running game wasn't the issue in 2015. The lack of a quality back up QB was the issue in 2015. Randle's 2015 year was about as effective as Zeke's 2017 was. Not great, but not bad.

And before any tries to claim the RB missed a block which led to Romo being hurt against Philly, let me remind everyone it was an empty backfield set when Romo got hurt and the season ended in week 2.
 

tyke1doe

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Tyron. He's on his last legs.
No one's going to take Frederick with his injury.
 

John813

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Understand your overall thoughts. Although very good I don't consider his last couple seasons to be on par with his earlier seasons. Wondering if i could get enough value in return to make it worthwhile.

Not sure. Even if they were to consider it, what's his realistic compensation? Late first? 2nd? +? What's a guards value in a trade?
Then who is his replacement? I love the draft, but the Cowboys got lucky in multiple years in drafting their core, maybe outside of 2011 with Smith where the option was Watt or Smith.

We've seen the dark ages of offensive line drafting here in the 2000's prior to the Smith pick. Rodgers, Peterman, Brewster, James Marten, Al Johnson etc. Not to say they didn't hit at all with Gurode, Free and maybe a few other guys for depth roles.
 

McKDaddy

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Not sure. Even if they were to consider it, what's his realistic compensation? Late first? 2nd? +? What's a guards value in a trade? - Given his accolades and that he was a first rounder, I would think it would have to be at least a first or some combination that was equivalent (like a player plus a pick)

Then who is his replacement? I love the draft, but the Cowboys got lucky in multiple years in drafting their core, maybe outside of 2011 with Smith where the option was Watt or Smith. Maybe Looney. Maybe a FA. What got me mulling it was watching some draft breakdowns of some OL. There were some being compared to him & Quinten Nelson. Think how you replace him could be entirely dependent on what you were getting in return.

We've seen the dark ages of offensive line drafting here in the 2000's prior to the Smith pick. Rodgers, Peterman, Brewster, James Marten, Al Johnson etc. Not to say they didn't hit at all with Gurode, Free and maybe a few other guys for depth roles.
- On a line that seems to be set other than the LG position and given that we have options to cover that, surely we could change out one of the vets and still be solid.

Its all just hypothetical exercise to get folks thinking ;)
 

CouchCoach

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Think about the Conner's, the last two OL picked on the 2nd day. Williams is still a ? as is McGovern.

Every GM is aware of Big Smitty's health and declining effect, Yosemite wasn't 100% last season so that leaves Martin or Collins, the right side of that OL. Both of those players graded out as 1st rounders so they'd have to pick another in the 1st because they don't have a track record other than OL in the 1st.

They finally did something right, built the foundation for the offense and paid to keep them together. What they did wrong was pay the RB what they did, the reason a team has the highest paid OL is so that they don't have to have the highest paid RB. They have learned nothing about cap management since it came into being.
 

Redball Express

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This is way overblown. Randle wasn't the issue in 2015. The running game wasn't the issue in 2015. The lack of a quality back up QB was the issue in 2015. Randle's 2015 year was about as effective as Zeke's 2017 was. Not great, but not bad.

And before any tries to claim the RB missed a block which led to Romo being hurt against Philly, let me remind everyone it was an empty backfield set when Romo got hurt and the season ended in week 2.
Well..

I guess you can take it by degrees.

Randle was a mess. My impression of him was b/w he and Murray, Murray had 1,800 yds and Randle had 800?

As for Randle vs Zeke in 2017, Zeke played 6 games less due to his suspension.

Why are you wanting to add that factoid here?

I agree about not having a quality QB and even now? Still don't.

Another McCarthy fix coming soon. If he has any brains, Mike get a quality QB off of another team. Preferably a vet like Andy Dalton or somebody that they can groom.

Rush and White seem like they are stuck for now.
 

beware_d-ware

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We have some big contracts among the OL, but crazy thing is that they're all good deals.

-Tyron makes $12M in a market where mediocre LTs like DJ Humphries make $15M.

-La'El gets paid $10M, while Philly recently re-upped Lane Johnson for $17M. I'd say that La'El is like 90% of the player that Johnson and plays for 60% of the salary.

-Martin is paid like the best guard in football because he is the best guard in football.

-Frederick's the only guy who didn't play up to his contract last year, but that's because of a one-in-a-million illness rather than injury or misevaluation of talent. When he's healthy, he's been worth the paycheck too.

People say we spend too much cap on the OL, but as long as that's money's that well-spent, I say go for it. You can definitely sign a lot worse deals than what we have there.
 

big dog cowboy

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None. Why create a hole that needs filled?
We have some big contracts among the OL, but crazy thing is that they're all good deals.

People say we spend too much cap on the OL, but as long as that's money's that well-spent, I say go for it. You can definitely sign a lot worse deals than what we have there.
Game is won in the trenches. The Cowboys have one of the best on offense. That doesn't come cheap. Stephen has done a good job with those contracts.
 

Aviano90

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Well..

I guess you can take it by degrees.

Randle was a mess. My impression of him was b/w he and Murray, Murray had 1,800 yds and Randle had 800?

As for Randle vs Zeke in 2017, Zeke played 6 games less due to his suspension.

Why are you wanting to add that factoid here?

I agree about not having a quality QB and even now? Still don't.

Another McCarthy fix coming soon. If he has any brains, Mike get a quality QB off of another team. Preferably a vet like Andy Dalton or somebody that they can groom.

Rush and White seem like they are stuck for now.
The amount of games played doesn’t matter. They were about as efficient as each other. We just kept on feeding the ball to Zeke, while we moved on from Randle.

Just something to ponder though about our running game in 2015 though. We tend to give reasons for why our top players aren’t as successful (Zeke and stacked boxes, sorry QB play, etc.) but for some reason people won’t give any slack to the 2015 running game. Instead use it as some sort of proof we had a failed philosophy. But consider the following:

DMC was 4th in total rush yards that year despite starting only 10 games.
The Cowboys were 9th best rushing team despite only being 18th in total attempts.
Cowboys had 5th best yards per carry average.

They accomplished those stats with horrible QB play, even from Romo who easily had his worst performance year but he only played 3.5 games due to injury. Then our QBs were Weeden, Cassel and Moore.

Dez was also missing and/or playing injured except for about the 1st quarter of the first game. Even before he broke his foot in the 2nd half of the first game, Dez was being treated for dehydration and had even missed most of that training camp due to injury.

That left TWill as the number 1 receiver. We traded for Butler and he got hurt in his first game so we were back to TWill as the number 1 receiver and Dez was ineffective when he returned from injury.

Our 2015 running game was excellent under those circumstances. We had zero threat of a passing game that year. It was clearly the strength of the team and then we used a premium pick in 2016 to get Elliott and improve upon that strength while continuing to ignore the weakness.
 
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blueblood70

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most likely cant happen do to contracts with money we would owe even after traded but given Looneys status id sign him and trade TF because well we went to the second round without TF and the 2 yrs with 9-7 8-8 I know not his fault but we did win without him..AND hes a known commodity not only as player but as a big community reputation and a stand up guy all the way around.. he would fetch a good deal..
 

blueblood70

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The amount of games played doesn’t matter. They were about as efficient as each other. We just kept on feeding the ball to Zeke, while we moved on from Randle.

Just something to ponder though about our running game in 2015 though. We tend to give reasons for why our top players aren’t as successful (Zeke and stacked boxes, sorry QB play, etc.) but for some reason people won’t give any slack to the 2015 running game. Instead use it as some sort of proof we had a failed philosophy. But consider the following:

DMC was 4th in total rush yards that year despite starting only 10 games.
The Cowboys were 9th best rushing team despite only being 18th in total attempts.
Cowboys had 5th best yards per carry average.

They accomplished those stats with horrible QB play, even from Romo who easily had his worst performance year but he only played 3.5 games due to injury. Then our QBs were Weeden, Cassel and Moore.

Dez was also missing and/or playing injured except for about the 1st quarter of the first game. Even before he broke his foot in the 2nd half of the first game, Dez was being treated for dehydration and had even missed most of that training camp due to injury.

That left TWill as the number 1 receiver. We traded for Butler and he got hurt in his first game so we were back to TWill as the number 1 receiver and Dez was ineffective when he returned from injury.

Our 2015 running game was excellent under those circumstances. We had zero threat of a passing game that year. It was clearly the strength of the team and then we used a premium pick in 2016 to get Elliott and improve upon that strength while continuing to ignore the weakness.
um IYO what was this weakness we didnt address? that draft was a complete success getting a starting qb in the 4th offset the EE pick but EE hasn't been a disappoint at all..we had EE has 3rd option at 4 both picks we wanted before him like Bosa and I cant remember the other name were gone.. im tried of hearing about JR because his own team traded him so they wouldn't have to pay him..if he was such a great impact player why didnt they keep him? attitude? practice habits? the fact they weren't winning much with him so?

we cant live in the past we are talking about a Hypothetical situation of trading a OL and you stick more why did we pick and then resign EE hate.. go figure..:facepalm:
 

Aviano90

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um IYO what was this weakness we didnt address? that draft was a complete success getting a starting qb in the 4th offset the EE pick but EE hasn't been a disappoint at all..we had EE has 3rd option at 4 both picks we wanted before him like Bosa and I cant remember the other name were gone.. im tried of hearing about JR because his own team traded him so they wouldn't have to pay him..if he was such a great impact player why didnt they keep him? attitude? practice habits? the fact they weren't winning much with him so?

we cant live in the past we are talking about a Hypothetical situation of trading a OL and you stick more why did we pick and then resign EE hate.. go figure..:facepalm:
The team needed defense. The same thing it needed the entire decade. So instead of defense we draft a RB in the first round and Jaylon in the 2nd round who we knew couldn’t play in 2016. Our defense got torched in the playoffs.

But the main point wasn’t what we did in 2016 draft. It was the mischaracterization of our 2015 running game whereas people think it was a complete failure. It was not.
 
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